Chains, corner boys and a rookery?

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Where: Monkstown Rd, Monkstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland

When: Unknown

This unusual church at Monkstown, County Dublin is beautifully captured by Mr. French in this shot. The swinger on the chains, the sitter on the wall and the seeming flock of rooks fluttering above would perhaps appear to suggest a warm summers day? I've passed it many times and wondered at the strange architecture - but put it down to eccentric 19th century tastes...

After some of the "changed utterly" images of late, it's delightful to note that this view had hardly changed by the 21st century Google street view. Our 19th century French street view probably dates to the late 1880s or 1890s (not least as, as Niall McAuley tells us, the spire was completed in the early 1880s. And, if it were the late 1890s/1900s, we might expect to see the tram lines/wires visible in similar images dating from that later period).


Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Catalogue range c.1865-1914. Probably c.1880s-90s. Likely mid-1890s

NLI Ref: L_CAB_00859

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 3139
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio thelawrencephotographcollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland church monkstown codublin ireland dunlaoighaire architecture cornerboys chains roundabout rooks flock walls towers countydublin ring spire cherub monkstownchurch johnsemple boardoffirstfruits

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  • profile

    Oretani Wildlife (Mike Grimes)

    • 09/Mar/2017 08:38:40

    The chains are still there as is the famine pot(?) but the small statue is gone and the lovely lamp replaced by a palm tree. www.google.es/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x486708991a2e07bf:...

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 09:32:54

    The DIA dates the church to 1866, the tower and spire to 1882.

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    DannyM8

    • 09/Mar/2017 09:40:10

    It is before the Tram arrived

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    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 09:45:59

    This one in the archive has tram wires, and the creeper has grown across the main door. Clearly later. There is a pole for the tram wires in this little roundabout. The later shot has cobbled roads.

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 09/Mar/2017 09:46:22

    Nelson's Pillar and Kingstown Opened August 1885,

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 09:48:08

    Dalkey tram was electrified in 1896.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 09:50:18

    So 1882-96.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 10:19:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikeegee] I think the "famine pot" is a horse trough: it is marked Tr on the 25". The 25" also marks a Fire Escape Station, which is one of those carts with a long ladder. We saw one before in Dun Laoghaire, which I now see has a matching trough and statue.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 10:22:47

    [https:[email protected]] Do you mean before the tram was electrified? Wikipedia suggests the horse-drawn tram was here from 1879.

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    Inverarra

    • 09/Mar/2017 10:23:58

    Great photo. Not sure about the crows though.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 10:27:25

    Bill Posters has been at the right-most gate pillar. The obscured left-most pillar, too, I think.

  • profile

    beachcomberaustralia

    • 09/Mar/2017 10:28:52

    Droneview!! 2015 - youtu.be/WLdrS0lO060

  • profile

    Carol Maddock

    • 09/Mar/2017 10:53:57

    Erroneous Marriage KLAXON!

    TO THE EDITOR OF THE IRISH TIMES Sir, Allow me to contradict an announcement which appeared in a recent number of your paper, to the effect that a marriage had been solemnised by me in Monkstown Church, on the 17th instant. No such marriage ever took place. It is difficult to denounce in sufficiently strong terms the heartless conduct of the fabricator of such a mischievous falsehood. I am, sir, your obedient servant, Edward Leet, Minister of Dalkey Church. Otranto, Sandycove, Jan. 23, 1861
    (Irish Times Thursday, 24 January 1861)

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 10:56:59

    This archive shot looks like the same day as the later one above (with tram wires and fire ladder), and includes the Knox Memorial Hall, dating from 1904.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:02:48

    Today's photo is the cover image on this traffic plan for Monkstown.

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:04:17

    Interesting history of the Roundabout, tho claiming the cherub, made by the Sun Foundry in Glasgow, was installed in 1895. ??

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:05:15

    The plan includes a crop of a Stereo Pair looking similar to this one. It suggests this image is c1890s.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:10:55

    "Identical Cherubs can be found on the fountains in the People's Park in Dun Laoghaire. They were designed by the Sun foundry in Glasgow and erected in 1895."

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:11:16

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Niall, I think we are both looking at the same document, the date I noted was the date the line opened, rather than the electrified date. If the tracks were there, I am not sure we would see them in this photo.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:13:04

    Water Fountain, Peoples Park, Dun Laoghaire

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:16:22

    So if the cherubs are 1895ish (and they are clearly a job lot - in Monkstown, Dun Laoghaire park and in that Dun Laoghaire horse trough I linked upstream), and the electrification is 1896, we are very near to 1895.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:19:08

    OK, maybe not so fast: The cherub is undoubtably pattern number 8: Boy With Paddle And Urn, four of which were contributed to the Stewart Memorial Fountain in Kelvingrove Park, Glasgow in 1872, where they sat above the four granite drinking fountains around the outer basin until 1939. So folks could have ordered paddling cherubs anytime from 1872 on.

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:34:06

    www.monkstownparishchurch.com/history There's a little bit about the design of the church here: Semple’s 1831 church was a spectacular modification of the earlier 1789 Georgan church. Semple knocked down the east end and added two huge transepts onto the existing west end, to finish up with a T-shaped building. He built galleries 20 feet deep in each transept, in addition to the organ gallery already at the west end and a shallow extension and ‘vestiary’ at the east end. All the seating faced inwards towards the huge central wood ‘three-decker’ pulpit. The original west end of the Georgian church is preserved inside Semple’s church, up to the point where the north and south transepts begin. However, the building of Monkstown Church did not run smoothly: a disastrous series of setbacks meant that it took an incredible eight years before the eventual opening. The site and design changes at least seven times, four different Building Committees were appointed, the builders went on strike when the money dried up, plans were lost, there were difficulties in raising money due to apathetic parishioners, personalities clashed and, to cap it all, Archbishop Magee, who had masterminded the whole project, lost the wife he adored, was crippled by a series of strokes and died before seeing the church completed. Semple’s church opened on Christmas Day, 1831 to mixed reactions.

  • profile

    beachcomberaustralia

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:38:51

    From almost exactly the same position in 1954 - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/9054949487/]

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Mar/2017 11:52:00

    here is the Stereo Pair in the archive. It shows the cherub, and damaged posters on the same two gateposts. Is the creeper at the door a little different? And the STP collection ends in 1883?

  • profile

    beachcomberaustralia

    • 09/Mar/2017 12:03:30

    Flickr sometimes amazes - in 2012 via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/infomatique/] - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/infomatique/7942827690/]

  • profile

    beachcomberaustralia

    • 09/Mar/2017 12:08:27

    The interior is extraordinary too - see [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy]'s description above - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/maderb/22011271338/]

  • profile

    A. P. L.

    • 09/Mar/2017 14:08:33

    Current Rector of Monkstown is Canon Roy H Byrne, whom I went to school with. He became one of the youngest Canons in history a few years ago....

  • profile

    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 09/Mar/2017 22:52:50

    Sorry for coming late to this. I grew up in the area and remember the entire "Ring" being RELOCATED by several feet as part of the Carrickbrennan Road widening scheme in the mid-late 1960s. So its position in the photo no longer applies exactly. (Odd that the conservation report did not report this). And yet, the 2012 contemporary picture seems to contradict my memory. Maybe the movement was towards/away from the camera. There was also a P&T Telephone Kiosk located opposite the door of the Church; this too went when the "ring" was shifted.

  • profile

    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 09/Mar/2017 23:07:53

    The Church spire has been receiving some attention lately. They've even installed a Stairway to Heaven stairway to heaven

  • profile

    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 10/Mar/2017 02:34:48

    I like how we can nail down a date of a solitary photo.

  • profile

    philfluther

    • 10/Mar/2017 14:41:26

    Not the coast road. Same. road, railway.

  • profile

    sam2cents

    • 10/Mar/2017 14:44:28

    A wonderful lovely image and more than a mere photograph of architecture.