Rathmines Road Upper, Dublin City, Co. Dublin

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Where: 23-35 Rathmines Rd Upper, Dublin, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: Unknown

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Todays offering from the vaults beneath Library Towers is much more identifiable than last Friday's offering. Rathmines Road Upper back in the day with tramlines, horse cart deliveries and cobbled road surface. Heaven!

While, unlike Friday's headscratcher, location and subject were largely known here, the date was not. Based on the businesses, tramlines and (partial) posters visible, the general consensus is that this image dates from around 1910-1911. Comparing the modern streetview, which captures similar businesses and business names (a laundry, Kennedy's, pub, etc) you'd perhaps be forgiven for thinking it was less than 100+ years ago....


Photographer: Unknown

Collection: Eason Photographic Collection

Date: Catalogue range c.1900-1939. Possibly c.1910

NLI Ref: EAS_1937

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 4390
eason easonson easoncollection easonphotographiccollection glassnegative 20thcentury nationallibraryofireland rathminesroadupper rathmines dublincity tramlines horsecarts cobblestones terraceofhouses shops dublin rathminesroad finn kennedys pub heron sweeteries scottheadsforfarsouth alicemfinn terenuelaundry loughran

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    derangedlemur

    • 23/Oct/2017 09:37:26

    Well, at least this one's not also Navan.

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    outdoorwanderer2018

    • 23/Oct/2017 10:13:38

    Fantastic, so which way are we facing North or South in this one?

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Oct/2017 11:01:56

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/outdoorwanderer2018] We are looking South along Rathmines Road Upper from outside Tesco.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Oct/2017 11:08:08

    Behind that horse there are eminently dateable posters. But I can't see them!

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    Grumpy Old 'Tog

    • 23/Oct/2017 11:08:29

    Looks to be about here where the tramline to Dartry becomes single.

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    Grumpy Old 'Tog

    • 23/Oct/2017 11:49:13

    The tramway from Rathmines to Dartry opened on the 27th January 1905.

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    John A. Coffey

    • 23/Oct/2017 11:56:40

    Kennedys, Wine Merchants and Family Grocers , no. 22, James and Edward were the owners in 1911 and through the 1930s. They were from Tippeary, where many of Dublins Publicans came from.

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    outdoorwanderer2018

    • 23/Oct/2017 12:02:01

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Ah excellent thank you.

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    O Mac

    • 23/Oct/2017 12:39:50

    We have seen an Eason photograph taken in Rathmines Aug 1911. Possibly taken same day? Catalogue numbers are very close. www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/8102282250

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    guliolopez

    • 23/Oct/2017 12:39:58

    The fashions (and modes of transport) would suggest the first decade or so of the catalogue range. I'd say we could safely eliminate the 1930s anyway. And probably the 1920s.

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    Foxglove

    • 23/Oct/2017 12:50:00

    man on right tries to pick pocket the woman to his right - where are the men of the RIC when........

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    Bernard Healy

    • 23/Oct/2017 13:27:27

    Gorgeous picture of what used to be an old stomping ground... All good culchies spend time in a Rathmines bedsit. Zooming in on the horse at the exteme left, there's a nameplate on the shafts. Can't read it all, but I'd wager it reads [ARTHUR GUINNE]SS, SON & CO LIMITED Next to Kennedy's pub (No. 22) is Finn's (No. 23). Per the 1911 Census this would Mary Alice Finn, a photographer and shop keeper, at the age of 24. (Note - shop sign says A M Finn...) Heron in no 24 is an insurance agent in 1911. Willam Dorney next door is a Master Baker in 25. He was based in Wharton Terrace (Harold's Cross) in the 1901 Census. The residents of 26 are Dillons, with the head of family being a van driver. This doesn't match the sign in the photo. However, the 1911 Census does list this building as a shop. I've had a look at the 1901 Census and I'm not finding _any_ of the above in Upper Rathmines. It certainly looks to me as though the Census suggests that we're post-1901, and probably within a few years of 1911.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Oct/2017 13:32:49

    The one poster I see a bit of (straight from the horses mouth :) is FOR FAR SOUTH. An expedition to the South Pole? The first men to reach the Geographic South Pole were the Norwegian Roald Amundsen and his party on December 14, 1911. Scott and Shackleton were down there in 1901-04, Shackletoon was back in 1909, and Scott was back in 1912.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 23/Oct/2017 13:37:49

    BTW, the shop front at No 20 has the wonderful word 'Sweeteries' on it.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Oct/2017 13:45:21

    I am thinking a headline like "Scott Heads For Far South"

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    BultacoFan

    • 23/Oct/2017 13:47:40

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] Indeed. Looks like an ad for Rowntrees Fruit Pastilles on the window below it.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Oct/2017 13:48:50

    Nov. 1911, reports had a Japanese expedition preparing: trove

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Oct/2017 14:30:15

    The poster to the left (under the horse), seems to be Freeman's, and I see the word Foster. Search Results... Untitled Article 1911-10-20 The Foster Divorce Case

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    abriony

    • 23/Oct/2017 14:49:39

    Goodness you can almost smell the horse manure in that image...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 23/Oct/2017 16:43:43

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove] I am afraid you are doing an injustice to the RIC! The Dublin Metropolitan Police were the police for Rathmines in those days!

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    jamica1

    • 23/Oct/2017 18:27:26

    Horse-drawn carts and electric wires, I love it

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    Bernard Healy

    • 23/Oct/2017 19:16:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] While we’re discussing Rathmines & its relationship with the rest of Dublin, it’s worth noting that whilst policed by the DMP, Rathmines was a township of its own and therefore not subject to Dublin Corporation. The local authority (until 1930) was the Rathmines and Rathgar Urban District Council. If you know where to look you can still find ‘Rathmines UDC’ on some of the local lampposts.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 23/Oct/2017 21:01:35

    A quick observation - and one that I hope won't upset our identification. I note that in the Modern Streetview that one of the shops visible is Deveney's Off-License which claims to have been established in 1910. I don't see Deveney's in our picture. That's giving me a little difficulty matching the buildings in our picture to those in the photo. Now, the 1911 Census suggests that the Deveneys were living in Church Place in Rathmines and might not have yet gone into business, but I'm still having a little difficulty seeing which of the premises in our old photo will later become Deveney's. BTW, here is a nice article about that shop. The reality, in fact and in practice, is that Deveney's is a core and surviving part of a Dublin village, a store that has changed and adapted with the neighbourhood to become a one-stop archive of the changes there since 1909. Rathmines, at its lively heart, is still the village it used to be and Deveney's, even to the street outside, a place to meet and get personal service. It's easy to imagine it not being a lot different when Michael and Catherine Deveney set up shop at 16 Upper Rathmines Road in 1909. Theirs was a forage store, selling dry goods, crushed barley, white oats for hens, fuel, groceries, etc. (BTW, it's obvious that the numbering system has changed since the old photo. Nowadays the even numbers are all on one side of the road. Our photo shows both odd and even numbers.) (Looking at the old OSI map, I'm pretty sure we have our identification correct. Everything matches too well.)

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    Bernard Healy

    • 23/Oct/2017 21:36:10

    Here's the relevant page from the 1912 Thom's directory. Note that this area was known as 'Rathmines' rather than its current name of 'Upper Rathmines Road'. That would make the 'Sweeteries' shop at the extreme left the Colleens' Toffee Shop, owned by Alice M Finn, presumably the same AM Finn of No 23 where Mary Alice Finn the photographer lives.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 24/Oct/2017 00:26:28

    Thanks all! Somewhat less of a headscratcher than Friday's offering - but fun to be had none-the-less :) Have updated, map, description, date range and tags!

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    Grumpy Old 'Tog

    • 24/Oct/2017 00:49:24

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] The buildings occupied by Heron/Dorney are undoubtedly Kennedy/Launderette in the streetview of today. So Deveneys today would be on the site of A. M. Finn. Agree there is a conflict on dates as Niall McAuley's 1911-10-20 would seem right.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 24/Oct/2017 07:50:22

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] Thank you! Yes, that makes sense.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 24/Oct/2017 13:00:37

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Just found Deveney's in the 1921 Thom's Directory, and you're 100% correct that it's located where Finn's is in our photo.