"Church with square tower of rubble masonry" is the original St Finbarre's Cathedral, Cork

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Where: 6 R608, The Lough, Cork, Ireland

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When: Unknown

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
A visit to the Stereo Pairs Collection today and to a country church(?) with "square tower of rubble masonry". The shot has been reduced to a single image for ease of viewing on Flickr. In the past we have been able to identify places and times by the tombstones but I am not sure the detail is there on this one.

While we'd originally titled this with a line from Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard, ("The rude forefathers of the hamlet sleep"), Niall McAuley schooled us that, technically, a hamlet (almost by definition) is a settlement that doesn't have a church. Shortly afterwards, based on cues and clues that hinted at a Cork based location, and in particular a similarly titled reverse view, sissonni established this as the "old" St Finbarre's Cathedral in Cork. As it was demolished and replaced, by William Burges, from 1865, we know that this image must have been captured before then....


Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton

Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence

Collection: Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection

Date: Catalogue range c.1860-1883. Certainly before 1865 (demolition/reconstruction of cathedral)

NLI Ref: STP_0582

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 6131
thestereopairsphotographcollection lawrencecollection stereographicnegatives jamessimonton frederickhollandmares johnfortunelawrence williammervynlawrence nationallibraryofireland churchyard headstones tombstones steeple church windows marylucey locationidentified cork cathedral saintfinbarrescathedral saintfinbarres gotcork bishopsstreet cathedralquarter ashabbyapologyforacathedral probablycataloguecorrection possiblecataloguecorrection

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    abandoned railways

    • 15/Jun/2018 07:21:36

    Because of the different family names, is this a grave of disaster victims.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 15/Jun/2018 07:30:13

    Here is the reverse view - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000563899 - the "hexagonal spire" must be relatively unusual ...

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    BultacoFan

    • 15/Jun/2018 07:41:37

    A quick peruse of the irishgenealogy.ie website suggests that a Corn(elius) Ryan and a Mary Lucey both died in Macroom in 1865 and 1866 respectively. Deaths for 4 people called Denis Manly are also recorded between 1865 and 1887, all in Cork City or county. I think there may be a Cork connection in this photograph.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 15/Jun/2018 07:51:52

    Strictly speaking, the definition of a hamlet is a small settlement which does NOT have a church.

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 15/Jun/2018 07:54:41

    Possible clue for consideration. As www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia/ offered- catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000563899/Details#tabnav Notice the Stereo-Pairs have a number in the top-centre "581". What photos do NLI have that have "549", "580", "582", "583", for example. What was the method of travel during the period the photo was taken, with photographic equipment? Horse and buggy? Walking? Horse, only? Next, if you have identified photos "580" and "582" and you make an assumption about speed, amount time to travel, then you could deduce a distance and then make concentric/intersecting rings on a map to determine probable locations of the church for stereo-photo "581".

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    domenico milella

    • 15/Jun/2018 08:09:29

    Congratulation for your beautiful Album.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 15/Jun/2018 08:29:37

    STP_580 is in Cork. STP_583 is in Cork. Findagrave shows lots of Mary Luceys, mainly in Cork.

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 15/Jun/2018 08:46:22

    www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Anything more illuminating to offer? Why always the same comment, "Congratulation for your beautiful Album."? Spam!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 15/Jun/2018 09:21:41

    The building looks to be at least two different ages. The oldest bit is the rubble masonry tower with limestone hexagonal spire. The nave looks newer, cut stone with arched windows.

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 15/Jun/2018 09:30:54

    www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley/ www.flickr.com/photos/bultacofan/ This is a tough challenge Googled "churches in Cork and Macroom" "church steeples made of rubble in Ireland" "James Simonton" "Frederick Holland Mares" And, other Looked at all Google images available No luck. www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/28737476745/ same Photographers, as in the photo above And, it seems to be an odd-looking church steeple. Anglican, Uniting, Presby, and maybe a currently de-certified church, might be in private ownership. Are there any, Irish heritage building sites?

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 15/Jun/2018 10:31:18

    www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ A long shot but could it be Old St Senan's Church, Inniscarra www.geograph.ie/photo/989462 None of the structures look the same. The front of the church is different, no side structures, steeple is constructed differently, none of the graves in the above photo have crucifix-type headstones. Each of these are visual cues.

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    derangedlemur

    • 15/Jun/2018 10:57:01

    Or maybe this yoke: www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&...

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 15/Jun/2018 12:07:41

    If one examines the steeple (spire) carefully, there is a clock, below the bell. I am tired, now, of researching . . . It is an Anglican Church of Ireland . . . based upon the shape of the steeple they used, during that period. Also, grave markers. I tried to look up names on the graves and maybe there might be some Ancestry info . . . No luck. Could check here: corkcocoplans.ie corkcocoplans.ie/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2016/... I do not know 100%, but I am guessing this may have been deconstructed. Further, I have a gut feeling it may have been part of the Millstreet Boys Home. Not sure what has led me to that conclusion. aubanehistoricalsociety.org/aubane_collection/notes.pdf On the left side of the photo, through the trees though, it looks like a low wall and long building with a rounded door top. On the right side, the building is a two storey beyond the church, so it could be on a hill. Examine the front of the church steroscopic image here- catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000563899/Holdings#tabnav catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000563900

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    Niall McAuley

    • 15/Jun/2018 12:41:35

    buildingsofireland is usually good for this stuff, so I suspect that if we were right and it was in Cork, it is No Longer Standing. Also possible that it is not in buildingsofireland because it is in NI somewhere...

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    derangedlemur

    • 15/Jun/2018 12:54:50

    Manly and Lucey in Cork are all RC by 1901. I'm not convinced it's COI, especially with those windows.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 15/Jun/2018 14:21:10

    I think the third name may be Honora Kenny rather than Honoria Kemmy as noted above.

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    derangedlemur

    • 15/Jun/2018 14:21:25

    According to the census, the only place you get both Manlys and Kemmys is Limerick.

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    sissonni

    • 15/Jun/2018 16:13:52

    Could this be it? The clock placement and the shape of the windows look similar. Old St Fin Barre's Cathedral (1735-1865) www.corkpastandpresent.ie/mapsimages/corkphotographs/cork...

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    derangedlemur

    • 15/Jun/2018 16:31:05

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] That's it, alright. Well done!

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    Frank_C

    • 15/Jun/2018 17:46:29

    Well done sissonni - certainly looks like it. Here's another photo : archiseek.com/2015/1738-st-finn-barres-cathedral-cork/ Not exactly a "country churchyard" so.

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    DaithiDePaor

    • 15/Jun/2018 18:01:13

    I wonder are the graves still intact.

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    Wendy:

    • 15/Jun/2018 18:39:40

    Love the big window!

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    guliolopez

    • 15/Jun/2018 19:40:27

    As usual I miss the Cork ones. Sounds like it's all wrapped up. But this is definitely the original St Finbarres. Looking towards Bishop Street. The reverse view is unequivocal. Well done [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]]. As per the recently improved/featured article on Wikipedia, this building was demolished in 1865. To make way for Burges' new construction. 1865 is therefore the latest possible date for this image. Making it one of the oldest/earliest shots we've seen in a while.

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 15/Jun/2018 20:38:28

    Well done www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/...

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 15/Jun/2018 21:21:00

    [Edited] And Mr French / Lawrence was good enough to provide a photo of the new cathedral from the same angle. Many graves must have been moved, but others remain - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000340277 (before towers and spires) catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000324290 (with towers and spires And a slightly pink herring - the new west front before towers and spires with no sculptures and carvings - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000340278 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000337058 (with carvings) Ed - and sculptor Robert McLeod (ref wiki article above) working above the West Door - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000337879 (see megazoom)

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 15/Jun/2018 21:47:11

    Flickr is sometimes amazing - there are not too many 'now' photos from this angle, possibly 'cos of the trees. In 2010 via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/ontravels/] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/ontravels/4446154997/]

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    Niall McAuley

    • 16/Jun/2018 05:28:13

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Well done! Makes it one of our earliest dated images.

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    Dr. Ilia

    • 21/Jun/2018 08:00:05

    beautiful color