Sir John Gray all shiny and new

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Where: Sir John Gray Statue, Store Street, Dublin, Ireland

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When: Unknown

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
This beautiful shot of Sir John Gray's monument and a pristine Sackville Street, (O'Connell Street) taken in the early morning, The street is clear apart from some hackneys waiting for fares with Nelsons Pillar standing proud and the GPO in all its grandeur unaware of the devastation to come!

Apart from connecting the statue, its subject and its inscription to our recent Vartry Works photos, the main learnings here were from Niall McAuley. On date. Niall has whittled down the 50 year catalogue range - to perhaps just a decade or so (1880-1890 - give or take a year or so). On the basis of the statue itself.....


Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Catalogue range c.1865-1914. Definitely after 1879 (statue). Before 1892 (railings gone). So c.1880-1890

NLI Ref: L_CAB_01721

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 7154
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio thelawrencephotographcollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland sirjohngray statue monument oconnellstreet sackvillestreet nelsonspillar 1879 johngray doctor politician vartry dublin 1880s memorial tweedall lamprey cutler lesage

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  • profile

    B-59

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:04:29

    Street View 2017

  • profile

    B-59

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:08:45

    The monument was erected in 1879. www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&...

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:08:52

    The monument was unveiled on 24 June 1879, according to this Trove article - trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/170498782 Ed. - at three o'clock according to this better description - trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110561453

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:24:21

    Sir Thomas Farrell, sculptor - www.libraryireland.com/irishartists/sir-thomas-farrell.php

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    Oretani Wildlife (Mike Grimes)

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:28:44

    Tis a different street today... goo.gl/maps/8oY14QWQ7Xy

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:40:09

    No sign of electric trams yet, so definitely before 1896. ...or perhaps not: the first electrics reaching Nelson Pillar from Clontarf on 19th March 1898.

  • profile

    abandoned railways

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:46:22

    It is busier, but the camara of that period did not reflect movement.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:54:09

    Jacob Tweedell was at #39 in 1879 and 1882.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:56:31

    Adolph Lesage was next door in 1862.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 08:57:39

    And as late as 1880 per this page.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 09:03:35

    Gray was previously mentioned as responsible for these waterworks: Callow Hill, Roundwood, Co. Wicklow

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    domenico milella

    • 02/Oct/2018 09:05:16

    Congratulation for your beautiful Album

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 09:10:08

    The NIAH says that Originally the sculpture was surrounded by cast-iron railings but does not say how long they lasted.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 09:12:22

    The railings are gone by 1892, latest date for this one, replaced by 4 lamp posts: Written out of history

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 09:15:31

    Lamps no railings in the Gun Powder Office image, but we only have a c.1890 on that one: Gun Powder Office

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 02/Oct/2018 09:22:33

    Flick is sometimes shite! In 2017 via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/angelfigueiras/] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/angelfigueiras/37837657316/]

  • profile

    angelfigueiras

    • 02/Oct/2018 09:44:51

    Sorry?

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 02/Oct/2018 10:14:07

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/angelfigueiras] No, we love your photo!

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 02/Oct/2018 10:16:20

    There is also a stereo pair taken a couple of steps to the left at the same time (see the wet patches left by a water-cart). Might provide a few more clues ... catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000565586

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Oct/2018 10:24:42

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] There's a Prince of Wales Hotel in that one. Maybe [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] can dig up a date for it. There's also an Appleyard, purveyor of illegible mysteries in number 36.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Oct/2018 10:37:38

    Appleyard was there in 1862, apparently. Selling socks from Balbriggan and other such delights of the orient.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 11:59:16

    On the Prince of Wales, Archiseek says: The Hotel Metropole was a landmark in Dublin, located next to the General Post Office building in O’Connell Street. Originally four Georgian buildings combined together to form a hotel and known as the Prince of Wales, the building received various architectural embellishments to visually tie them together. Remodeled internally and externally by William M. Mitchell in 1891-93.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 12:00:27

    The DIA says it got a "cement front" in 1860, which is what we are seeing here, I think. The Metropole entry suggests it was renamed near the 1891-2 date: 1891-93 Nature: Remodelling of former Prince of Wales Hotel So no help - our range is still 1879 (statue) to 1892 (railings gone).

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 12:37:54

    So close! This archived Chancellor shot is dated precisely to July 1888, but the quality is not good enough to tell if the railings are there.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 12:54:27

    In the STP with the prince of Wales above, we see #35 is S. COWEN. In 1862, #35 was William Robertson, bookseller. I think (squinting) that S. COWEN is also a bookseller.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 12:59:02

    By 1901, there is only one S. Cowen that looks even possible, Samuel Cowen, Commercial Traveller, 63.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 13:05:14

    The Irish Times Archive gets hits for "Cowen Bookseller Sackville" from 1875 to January 1880, but not later.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 13:10:41

    In 1875 the hits are for Cowen & Thomson, 1879 are for S Cowen. "Thomson Bookseller sackville" gets hits up to 1877. I think we are in 1877-80. Add in the statue, and we are after June 24th 1879 and before 1881.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 02/Oct/2018 13:25:29

    Does anyone know anything about that peculiar "1818" weathervane on top of the GPO ? It shows up in early engravings, but not in later photos, even before the 1916 Easter Rising. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Post_Office,_Dublin#Images

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Oct/2018 15:24:30

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] The GPO Opened 6 Jan 1818

  • profile

    irishlad031_vintage

    • 02/Oct/2018 16:57:29

    youtu.be/5P50PHCHuwo

  • profile

    abandoned railways

    • 02/Oct/2018 17:25:49

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] On 6 January 1818, the new post-office in Sackville Street (now O'Connell Street) was opened for business

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    guliolopez

    • 03/Oct/2018 19:07:45

    Tweedall. Lamprey. Lesage. The names on the business in the left read-ground. Not exactly common Dublin names. Certainly not any more. If you Google them all together the ONLY results come from archive copies of the Freeman's Journal. From the 1850s and 1860s. Which, at that time, was owned by John Gray! Spoooookkyyy. (OK. Not spooky. But at least a mildly interesting coincidence.)

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 03/Oct/2018 21:27:03

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Spooky enough for me - though it's a bit of a Gray area...

  • profile

    Dr. Ilia

    • 08/Oct/2018 08:00:09

    brilliant!