Boys in uniform

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"Group of boys and young men in uniform commissioned by Mr. R. Grubb" is the title of this shot, and we have nine boys with uniform accouterments in shot. it reminds me of a ditty my mother would trot out sometimes along the lines:
"We are the Boys Brigade,
Dressed up in marmalade,
threehapenny tuppeny pill box
and a couple of yards of braid!"

Is this a Boys Brigade group?

Based on the typically insightful inputs on this image, it is confirmed that this is a group from the Church Lad's Brigade, an Anglican youth organisation. In this case almost certainly the Christ Church 'company' in Dublin, pictured outside the namesake cathedral....


Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford

Date: Catalogue range c.1901-1954. Almost certainly c.1901-1920ish

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 3538

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 10001
ahpoole arthurhenripoole poolecollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland boys uniform pillboxhats posed fightthegoodfight churchladsbrigade churchladsandchurchgirlsbrigade christchurchcathedral dublin christchurch medals belts buckles anglican

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  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 11/Sep/2018 07:57:28

    I can read one of the badges - "The Church Lads Brigade".

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    domenico milella

    • 11/Sep/2018 08:29:11

    Congratulation for your beautiful Album.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 11/Sep/2018 08:53:42

    There's some info on the various badges here which may help with dating.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Sep/2018 09:24:30

    Not an exact match, but from this wikipedia page on the Brigade (which still exists): Sergeant (three chevrons and a green sash with a button emblazoned with the C.L.B. crest) could be the left middle back row, and: Warrant officer, first class (two crowns, one on each arm, and a drill cane) right middle back row (although here he is wearing two pips on his cap).

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Sep/2018 09:27:50

    As the name suggests the Church lad's Brigade (and the Church Girl's Brigade) are associated with the Church of England (and presumably Ireland). So this is probably a CoI church or hall behind, in Waterford.

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    abandoned railways

    • 11/Sep/2018 09:48:02

    'Fight the good fight' is written around the cap badges.

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/Sep/2018 09:53:24

    It doesn't look like Waterford city. Tramore or Dunmore east would be the two off the top of my head that might match. Or St Patrick's Cathedral.

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    abandoned railways

    • 11/Sep/2018 10:02:53

    commissioned by Mr. R. Grubb, Stephens Green Club, Dublin, but that could have just been his address and not the location. The club is a private members club for 'Gentlemen'.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 11/Sep/2018 10:30:00

    Not many R Grubbs in Ireland per the 1911 Census www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_... Note that the Dublin Grubbs tend to be CoI, whilst the Waterford Grubbs tend to be Quakers (Society of Friends.) I don't think the Quakers approved of the quasi-military nature of the Boys' Brigade, so I'd imagine a Dublin Grubb connection is more likely.

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/Sep/2018 10:43:05

    I reckon it's Christ Church. That's the best match I've found with the base of the wall and the buttress. www.google.ie/maps/@53.3431941,-6.2712653,2a,22.8y,294.16...

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 11/Sep/2018 10:59:11

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] The Church Lads was a fair bit more militaristic than BB. The quakers would have had nothing to do with them.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 11/Sep/2018 11:19:43

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] I hadn't realised the distinction between the Church Lads & the Boys' Brigade. This is an interesting history: connor.anglican.org/2018/09/07/church-lads-and-church-gir... Of note - "In 1893, two companies were established in Dublin, at Christ Church, Leeson Park, and St Peter’s. Another two, at St Mary’s, Donnybrook and St Stephen’s, were added in 1894." "The Great War had dreadful consequences for the Brigade. Companies were closed as they lost their officers and members to the war effort. When the war ended, other than St Mary’s, Limerick Cathedral Company, and St Nicholas’, Cork, CLB and CGB, the main strength of the Brigade was to be found in the north, in the 1st Down, Connor and Dromore Battalion." One could infer from the article that the most likely date for this pic is in the first two decades of the 20th century.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Sep/2018 13:42:30

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] That stonework looks like a match to me: Christ Church it is!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Sep/2018 13:47:39

    For R Grubbs in Dublin, there is the tame Richard or the more exciting Romney Robinson, an Astronomical Instrument Maker like his father.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 11/Sep/2018 14:11:00

    I was having a look at some newspaper articles, and there was a Lt. Grubb, later Captain associated with Christ Church, Leeson Park and later the Cathedrals in the period around 1898-1902. However, he seemed to be either T. or F. Grubb, not R. Whereas the only T.(homas) in Dublin in 1901 doesn't have an R. associated with him.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 11/Sep/2018 19:28:15

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] Him being a Roman Catholic labourer rules him out.

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    Rory_Sherlock

    • 11/Sep/2018 19:57:23

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Yes - I agree with Christ Church - they were standing where the bench is today - the plinth step (higher on the left of the buttress, lower on the right) is a match and some of the stones in the wall to the right of group match perfectly with the stones to the right of the shadow-line in this image: www.google.ie/maps/@53.343286,-6.2715082,2a,75y,265.22h,8...

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 12/Sep/2018 03:19:30

    Turns out there was another T. or F. Grubb in Dublin in 1901. Namely the brother of [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley]'s "tame" Richard. (Though he seems to be Frederick E., and at least one Irish Times article refers to an F. C. Grubb as captain of the Cathedrals Company of the CLB.)

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    Niall McAuley

    • 12/Sep/2018 05:19:36

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] Another thing making me think this is early in the date range is that the boy at our right back is wearing a VR lapel badge. Some Victorian stuff survives (like the Victoria Cross), but my googling does not turn up any specifically CLB use of such a badge.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 12/Sep/2018 21:09:44

    Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet], [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] and [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] for the info on the "Church Lad's Brigade". And to [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] (with corroberation from [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] and others) for the confirmation of location. I've added a brief summary to the updated description/etc. Keep fighting the good fight :)

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    guliolopez

    • 12/Sep/2018 22:00:03

    Interesting, at least from my POV, "Fight the Good Fight" is also commonly the motto of Christian Brother's schools. Although they use the Latin equivalent. Certa Bonum Certamen. Perhaps to distance themselves from these 'lads' :D

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    RETRO STU

    • 13/Sep/2018 08:55:10

    I recognise the badges as Church Lads Brigade.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 13/Sep/2018 21:20:13

    Flickr is sometimes amazing ... [https://www.flickr.com/photos/lawrence_chard/15519212156/in/photostream/]

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 13/Sep/2018 23:20:58

    Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia]. Amazing indeed. And interesting. Not least as the CLB does seem to have held on to its military nomenclature and symbolism (like the badge). In a way that other/similar youth organisations have largely since left behind....

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    conijoni

    • 26/Nov/2018 11:43:40

    I can confirm that this is a picture of Church Lads' Brigade members attached to Christ Church, Leeson Park, Dublin. This Company, Number 121, was the Pioneer Company in Ireland, formed in February 1893. Another Company was formed in St Peter's later that same year. In all, there were 13 CLB companies formed in the Dublin Diocese...St Stephen's, Donnybrook, Grangegorman, Santry and Glasnevin, others. They had all closed by the summer of 1909...I believe the last to close was St Mary's, Donnybrook.

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    conijoni

    • 26/Nov/2018 12:20:10

    If I knew how to add pictures I would add an image of the CLB badge shown on the caps and also an earlier image of the Christ Church signalling squad showing the same Officer with one rank star on his cap. I would date this picture to the late 1890s. With this Company opening in Ireland in 1893, the Brigade, which is still going in Northern Ireland and in Drogheda, celebrated its 125th Anniversary in 2018 with an Anniversary Service in St Patrick's Cathedral, Armagh.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 27/Nov/2018 05:07:18

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/32186691788] Is it this one [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] ?

  • profile

    conijoni

    • 27/Nov/2018 07:51:28

    It is indeed.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 27/Nov/2018 09:01:30

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Excellent. Allowed HTML - Flickr this link will help you with commenting and posting.