Before the burning?

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We’ve been to Patrick Street in Cork before, including visits to the scene after the burning, but as this is the time of the anniversary of that burning, it seems appropriate to visit yet again. My late mother had a saying that Patrick Street would be the finest street in the land, if it didn’t have the bend in it! Given we seldom went to Cork, it didn’t make much sense to us, but may well have been true?

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1865 1898-1914

NLI Ref: L_ROY_01920

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 7051
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio thelawrencephotographcollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland patrickstreet cork countycork trams jarveys sidecars

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  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Dec/2020 08:57:05

    Flying fish!

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 11/Dec/2020 09:02:01

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Pfft! it's obviously a Zeppelin.

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/Dec/2020 09:03:47

    Electric lights and electrified trams. Someone will be able to date it from that.

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/Dec/2020 09:08:31

    J. T. O'Connell was still living over the shop in 1901, at the age of 33.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 09:09:36

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Tram services started at Christmas 1898

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 09:11:00

    lots of straw boaters, ladies in blouses without coats: summertime

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Dec/2020 09:23:13

    ... and a northerly wind!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 09:26:31

    01919 next door in the archive is a different day, earlier I think. Lots of flags out in that one which I think we tied to a big Exhibition previously. In todays shot, at left before the arcade, the top floor balcony has a photographic gallery to be let sign. in 01919 the signage says Brooke? Hughes/Guys. I will look in the street directories later an see if I can date the change in tenants.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Dec/2020 10:34:18

    I bet the fish was battered and fried in the The Burning of Cork ...

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    cargeofg

    • 11/Dec/2020 10:35:33

    Not a car or motor cycle to be seen. So we are in a very narrow time line here.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 11:39:42

    1897 guys has Hunter, Mrs, photographer at #28 above the Munster Warehouse Co.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 11:42:37

    1903 has Hughes Brooke photographer, as in 01919

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 11:43:48

    likewise 1907

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 11:45:07

    and 1910

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 11:46:23

    and 1913

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    cargeofg

    • 11/Dec/2020 11:47:58

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley You also have Honey Photography a couple of doors up from Munster Cycle Co Ltd.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 11:48:22

    and 1916, beyond the possible range. so todays shot must be before 01919, and before 1903.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Dec/2020 12:06:40

    we dated earlier flaggy pics to a 1902 exhibition, so this is Summer 1899 to 1902.

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    cargeofg

    • 11/Dec/2020 12:15:58

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauleyI would second that date range. Working on that first cars were registered in 1903 and some cars and m/cycles were on the road un registered. No cars but the electric trams started 1898 and present.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Dec/2020 12:38:55

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Good catch! I think this one might be looking the other way (downstream!) on the same day. Mr French and his trusty tripod were up something very high, almost level with those electric lamps. At 12:59. - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000339139 Edit. - which is almost the same as this via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/4427439354/] Edit 2 - Weird! The shop awnings have changed but the same fellow is still trying to cross the road in the foreground - a loitering photographic assistant? Definitely something fishy going on!

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Dec/2020 13:09:34

    And a couple more from very high, reverse view. Was Mr French perhaps up on a mobile scaffold cart used for servicing those electric lamps and tram wires? NB water cart has been spraying water to keep the dust down (we had that before in Cork) and THE FISH is up on the right - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000324278 (at 13:45) catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000040376 (at 13:30?) Edit - these two photos are not the same day as each other; see flags and shadows. catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000040376 might be the same day as today's photo.

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/Dec/2020 13:20:51

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley The internet, from a cursory inspection, seems to place the ladies' fashion between 1901 and 1910.

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 11/Dec/2020 13:31:37

    "Mr Brooke Hughes has just installed the most Modern and successful system for HIGH-CLASS PORTRAITURE, ELECTRIC AND DAYLIGHT STUDIOS. 28 Patrick-street, Cork." - Announcement in the Cork Examiner - Saturday 03 January 1903 (repeated regularly until April, then different wording until the end of 1904). There might have been earlier and later adverts, but coverage of the Cork Examiner in the BNA is sporadic - 1900-1901, 1903-1904. 1908-1912

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    suckindeesel

    • 11/Dec/2020 18:08:23

    Has to be 1899 or later, given that service started winter 1898. Not our tram, but interesting: "There was substantial disruption to services and destruction of some tramcars during The Burning of Cork in December 1920. The events which occurred to the driver, John Hurley, conductor Alex Garvey and passengers on tramcar no 3 were recorded in the Cork Examiner: "Passengers by the last tram to St. Luke's Cross, which left the Statue at 9 p.m. on Saturday, had a rather eventful journey. The car had got about 60 or 70 yards beyond Empress Place police barracks when a number of men in police uniform, carrying carbines and accompanied by Auxiliaries in plain clothes, held it up. They ordered all the passengers off at the point of revolvers. Male passengers were somewhat roughly handled and then ordered to line up for search. Some few were inclined to run and a voice rang out: "I'll shoot anyone who runs." All then stopped but some shots were fired in the air while the searches were being conducted. In some cases when the search was completed the person searched was ordered home, getting a bit of a rough send-off. The tramcar was then broken in by the police and a rifle shot was discharged, the smell of powder permeating the air. The tramcar was brought back to the Statue by the driver and conductor who when it neared there were ordered off. It was later set on fire and completely destroyed."

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Dec/2020 18:23:29

    1902 video of Patrick's St mobile.twitter.com/RobCross247/status/1216066117107580929

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    suckindeesel

    • 11/Dec/2020 23:09:39

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50706950983/in/dateposted/ A contrast of old and new. The Munster Arcade, on the left, was one of the many fine buildings destroyed in the burning of Cork, whose centenary it now is. Note the initials of its proprietors, Robertson, Ledlie, Ferguson and Company, on the upper balcony.

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    suckindeesel

    • 12/Dec/2020 14:00:17

    Most of the buildings in this shot were destroyed in 1920, and were rebuilt in the mid 20s. Can anyone make out the number on the more distant tram? It sort of looks like "19", if so it would be from the second delivery in 1900.

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    silverio10

    • 12/Dec/2020 20:00:30

    Buenas fotos antiguas .

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 12/Dec/2020 20:26:08

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Looks like "10" or "JO" to me 🔎 Anyone know the story of this particular fish weathervane? I keep getting google results for a bigger one on St Anne's Church, Shandon - www.shandonbells.ie/history.html "... The fish shaped weather vane is a salmon, known locally as ‘de goldie fish’ and is over four meters long and painted in gold leaf. It symbolises the salmon fishing industry, which was very important to Cork and also the sign of a fish is very appropriate on a church as the fish is an early christian symbol for the name of the Lord. ..."

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    suckindeesel

    • 13/Dec/2020 23:01:47

    The reason that Patricks St. is curved is that it, and other city centre streets, was originally a channel of the River Lee which was built over on arches in the late 1780s. www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/stpatricksstreet/histori...

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    suckindeesel

    • 13/Dec/2020 23:27:47

    The fishy weathervane could be on the roof of the old Royal Victoria Hotel, but can't get any leads.

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    O Mac

    • 14/Dec/2020 01:43:18

    suckindeesel The fishyvane appears to be atop the Victoria Hotel catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000040376/MooviewerImg?mobile...

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 14/Dec/2020 07:43:07

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Yes! Glimpsed here (before Hotel's glass porch) - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000337526 And with Hotel's glass porch and electric tram - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000321110 The Fish survived the Cork burning (as did the Hotel). See this image - www.irishexaminer.com/cms_media/module_img/3033/1516589_1... from a short history at www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20359349.html

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 14/Dec/2020 08:38:04

    There is a much earlier stereo pair from a similar angle which does not show The Fish (see chimney in left frame), but it does show that the lamp in the middle of the street was once a drinking fountain - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000565380