Shuttered shop on the corner of Alexander Street

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Where: Munster, Waterford, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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All these celebrations, and the sherry provided by the Library Hierarchy have given me a hangover, so back to the sobriety of the Poole Collection for today's image. House in Alexander Street commissioned by W. McCoy shows us a fine establishment with lots of potential, and two resident corner boys. What am I offered?

+++ UPDATE +++
Well done to you all on reconstructing the lives and livelihoods of those families living and working around Alexander Street. And a special thank you to Paul O'Farrell, who has long been our roving Waterford Correspondent, for establishing a solid enough date for this photograph of in and around 1895.

Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Collection, Waterford

Date: Between ca 1901-1954 Around 1895

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 0687

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 5765
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland shutteredshop house alexanderstreet waterford munster cornerboys poolephotographiccollection ireland draper field undertakers basketmakers thetemplebar alexandrastreet wyley 1895 1890s 19thcentury

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  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 27/Jan/2021 09:01:03

    Still there, now with a tree on top - streetview - goo.gl/maps/EPUmzmDLUsWMUNWv5

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    cargeofg

    • 27/Jan/2021 09:15:20

    Who would have though that in the 21st Century that Mr Field and Mr Wyle would be linked by willow woven coffins.

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    cargeofg

    • 27/Jan/2021 09:22:25

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Second word on wall looks like DRAPER to me. Need someone who can access the census returns or a trade directory to find a surname.

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    ofarrl

    • 27/Jan/2021 09:36:00

    The building on the corner was a pub known as Lawlor’s in the 1970’s it may have been a pub long before that also.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 27/Jan/2021 09:40:22

    Previously somewhere in Alexander Street (1924) - possibly the yard before the basket maker - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6805869735/

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    Rory_Sherlock

    • 27/Jan/2021 09:42:48

    Streetview: www.google.ie/maps/@52.2592601,-7.111832,3a,75y,259.64h,1...

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 27/Jan/2021 09:53:42

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] As recently as 2007 it was pink with blue edging, da Vinci's / Temple Bar - goo.gl/maps/CPwWw6C6RndKKBk28 *wishes that Google Streetview went back to the dinosaurs!*

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:00:27

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] George, Census records are free to all, Census Ireland

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    cargeofg

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:06:56

    See note on photo. Church tower. I had a wander up that direction with google streetmaps and could find only a Monastery school. Building looks 1950s https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] is it sited on an older church site?

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:14:15

    According to one of the members of the Waterford History page on Facebook the building on the corner was a pub owned by a William Mullowney in 1839. Egan's Guide to Waterford published in 1894 lists the building as vacant.

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    John Spooner

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:15:45

    Is this no 1? In April 1863 Richard Fitzpartrick made it known that he had taken over the COFFIN FACTORY and UNDERTAKING ESTABLISHMENT at No. 1 Alexander-street. The previous owner was Mr John Quinn. (Waterford Mirror and Tramore Visitor. - Wednesday 22 April 1863)

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:19:47

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I belive the four spires just visible in the photo belong to Ballybricken Church although it looks like those pointed spires have since been removed.

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:24:54

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks I was just going to have a look at OSi 25"

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    cargeofg

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:29:53

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Had a look at 1901 and 1911 could only find a Mary Field but not listed with any trade. Listed as Head of house no husband or children either. Our Basket maker?

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    cargeofg

    • 27/Jan/2021 10:36:43

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Had a look at this sign again and tried to make a surname of first letters but now think maybe GENERAL So General Draper ?

  • profile

    Quite Adept

    • 27/Jan/2021 11:09:04

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I'm not sure this is no. 1. Judging from the Strretview links posted I think this is at the junction with Michael Street and Google seems to indicate that this is no. 13 Michael Street. Shoe Rack on the opposite corner is no. 11

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    John Spooner

    • 27/Jan/2021 11:12:29

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/quiteadept I was gradually coming to the same conclusion.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 27/Jan/2021 11:20:09

    Re: M Field, Basket Maker, how about this from the 1901 Census - Michael Field, Basket Maker of Tanyard Arch - that seems to have been a kind of a slum courtyard off Michael Street & very close to Alexander Street: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Water... Tanyard Arch was still a slum in the 1930s: www.facebook.com/WaterfordSocialHistory/photos/tanyard-ar... In 1911, Michael Field is gone, but his son John is a Basket Maker living in Lady Lane. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Water... 1909 - Death Cert of Michael Field, Tanyard Arch, Basketmaker: civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/death...

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    Bernard Healy

    • 27/Jan/2021 11:30:12

    Re: J Wyle - This is more likely to be J Wyley who was a grocer of 11 Michael Street who died 8th September 1901. civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/death... A grocer being an undertaker was perfectly normal at the time. His address - 11 Michael Street - is, per Google Maps, the at the corner of Michael Street and Alexander Street. Here is the census entry for 1901: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Water... Looking at the buildings return, that would suggest that the corner building we're looking at might have been either: Alice Power's Public House or Patrick Walsh's Public House in 1901. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001231831/

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 27/Jan/2021 11:42:40

    BTW, we've come across the Wyley family before - one of the sons of the house was Mayor of Waterford: www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/34176861030/in/photolist-...

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 27/Jan/2021 11:54:15

    Number 11, corner of Michael Street and Alexander Street, for sale in 1884, "in which the chandlery and soap-boiling trade has been carried on for many years". But no longer if all the equipment is being sold off. Four-storey high - does this include the cellar? Or roofspace? Waterford Standard - Saturday 13 September 1884

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 27/Jan/2021 11:56:00

    In the 1911 Census, the shop between Power's Public House & Walsh's Public House is now occupied by a draper called Fitzpatrick: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003496086/ All of the Wyley family have moved to Parnell Street and are no longer in the Grocery Business. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Water... It's not impossible that the Undertaking business might still be continuing under the Wyley name in 1911, but all things considered, I think it most unlikely. The sons weren't of an age to take on the father's business when he died. Everything seems to point to this picture being earlier than 1911, and I would argue that a case could be made placing it around 1901.

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    cargeofg

    • 27/Jan/2021 12:03:50

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy No relation to me as far as I can tell! We all come from Co Clare. I did suspect that there was a letter obscured on the undertakers sign. Great amount of info you and https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner have added.

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    John Spooner

    • 27/Jan/2021 12:32:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy Reported in the Waterford Standard - Wednesday 21 July 1886: John Wyley, grocer, Michael-street, gave evidence at an inquest into the death of a man who had fallen from scaffolding. The deceased had been working for a James Murphy, who said "that was at Alexander-street, they were taking some boards out of Mr Wyley's yard". So John Wyley had an address in Michael Street and a yard in Alexander Street in 1886. In a court case in 1889, it is referred to as Wyley's corner: "They then ran away quickly, going in the direction of Alexander-street. They ran close round Wyley's corner, and ran into each other." (Waterford Standard - Wednesday 11 December 1889)

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    John Spooner

    • 27/Jan/2021 12:47:34

    The obituary of John's widow Ellen Wyley has everything you ever need to know about their family.. Waterford Standard - Saturday 02 September 1933

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    Bernard Healy

    • 27/Jan/2021 12:55:41

    I'm wondering about the fact that this photo was commissioned by "W McCoy". I can't find any W McCoy in the Waterford area & I'm wondering why anyone would commission a photo of an undistinguished house/shop? Note also, Poole must have taken this either from a ladder or (more likely, in mty opinion) the first floor window of a house opposite. I wonder if there's a connection with Archibald McCoy the solicitor whom we've met already. Perhaps the house was photographed in connection with the sale of the premises or for some other reason connected to the law. www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/28339931240/in/photolist-...

  • profile

    an poc

    • 27/Jan/2021 13:11:27

    I really hope I'm wrong about this, but is that fine terrace of houses due to be demolished to make way for a shopping centre? https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 27/Jan/2021 13:31:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That's my understanding, that whole area has been scheduled for development for quite a while.

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    an poc

    • 27/Jan/2021 14:29:23

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Oh dear.

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 27/Jan/2021 14:34:13

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy Ellen Wyley was still at 11 Michael Street in January 1907 - she is named as a proposer of a candidate in the municipal elections. (Waterford Standard - Saturday 05 January 1907)

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    ofarrl

    • 27/Jan/2021 15:09:46

    I would put the date of the photo at around 1895 give or take a year or so. The buildings just visible at the top of Alexander street, along Stephen Street was the old Stephens street School which was demolished around 1897 to make way for the new national school building which opened in 1898. Also number 12 Michael Street looks very much vacant as Egan's 1894 guide states, with no lettering above the door or on the overhead sign.

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 27/Jan/2021 15:48:11

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I like that suggestion very much. And that's a great catch in identifying the school building.

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    suckindeesel

    • 27/Jan/2021 18:10:23

    The 25" survey (1905) shows the LHS of Alexander St., other than the corner shop cleared of all the slums, so photo must be earlier

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Jan/2021 16:36:15

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks a million, roving Waterford Correspondent! Very happy to go with around 1895.

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    silverio10

    • 28/Jan/2021 22:37:26

    Buenas fotos antiguas .

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 29/Jan/2021 11:30:00

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland it's nice not to be 8 hours behind everyone else for a change, at least for a little while anyway 😊