The castle outside the walls

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Where: Leinster, Co Longford, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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I’ve never seen this castle so I don’t know if it still stands, but the arrangement of a fortified tower OUTSIDE the walls of a military barracks seems counterproductive? An interesting scene with a sentry at the gate and a gentleman speaking to him, while along the wall on both sides are posters. I wish that this had been a Royal plate and they might have been more readable?

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1865-1914

NLI Ref: L_CAB_09210

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 5285
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio thelawrencephotographcollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland longford colongford connacht castle militarybarracks sentrybox posters

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  • profile

    Guerilla Photography (Ireland)

    • 07/May/2021 08:09:09

    I believe that has been replaced now with a shopping mall and cinema. longford

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/May/2021 08:16:33

    Yikes! - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000320156 Earlier?

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/May/2021 08:34:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/longford_library Hello Longford Library, we would love your home view on this photo.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/May/2021 08:37:44

    Streetview is very ordinary - goo.gl/maps/2sWF8D99Pehpvad7A Edit - so very ordinary, it is worth a screen cap ! - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia/51164134335/]

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/May/2021 08:43:48

    The hipped roof and chimneys of the 1815 Connolly Barracks behind. Two more photos (with two Dogs) might provide more clues - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000320133 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000332583

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/May/2021 08:46:40

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia It really is!

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/May/2021 08:47:06

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Progress?

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 09:19:52

    In Athlone, the old castle is across the square from the barracks, completely separate.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 09:22:51

    Lord Aungier was granted property in Longford under this system and took possession in 1627. He soon ran into trouble with the native chieftains and decided to build a castle in Longford town to protect himself against his enemies. Many bloody battles were fought on this spot against the English garrison. The most important and best known of these battles took place in 1641 and was known as the Longford Rebellion.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 09:33:52

    From the 1824 Pigott's: On the site of ground, at present occupied as a barrack, once stood the castle of Longford, and near to it an extensive abbey

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 09:39:14

    From Longford.ie: In 1774, Aungier’s relative, the earl of Longford sold the castle and leased surrounding land to the British authorities for the establishment of a cavalry barracks. Gradually, most of the castle was adapted or demolished. The last surviving section of it, including part of a tower, was to the east of the entrance, outside the grounds. It was demolished in 1971, and the site now has the intended shopping centre you see beside the cinema. A market house, possibly dating from c.1700, still stands within the complex.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 09:42:45

    Left of the barracks gate is a recruiting poster featuring four lads in bearskin hats. We may have seen it before. Looks like a His Majesty's Foot Guards poster for the Irish, Scots, Coldstream and Grenadier Guards like this one: pbs.twimg.com/media/D_PsH99UwAAEiuz?format=jpg&name=m...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 10:16:23

    I think these posters were in use right up to the first World War, when they were replaced by all the "Do your part!", "What are you, a man or a mouse?" wartime posters. 1901 on, I'd say. THis copy at Alamy says: Recruiting poster Army Form B207, printed by Jowett & Sowery 1909 by J B Baldwin

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    John A. Coffey

    • 07/May/2021 10:18:20

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] The village pump www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50958241433

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/May/2021 10:25:00

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thank you - the step must be for buckets not feet !

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/May/2021 10:51:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Good find.

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    John Spooner

    • 07/May/2021 11:18:42

    Some fond farewells (Longford Journal - Saturday 05 May 1906)Screenshot_2021-05-07_12-12-52

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 11:19:06

    OK, The Irish Guards were formed on 1 April 1900, and the poster image is four lads, one for each of the four regiments of foot guards. Definitely after 1900. From 1915, there would have been a fifth, the Welsh guards, but that is outside our date range.

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    John Spooner

    • 07/May/2021 11:21:30

    I wonder if the military put their own posters up, or outsourced it to a local specialist such as Mr Feeney? (Longford Journal - Saturday 05 May 1906 - same edition, page and column as the previous clip) Screenshot_2021-05-07_12-13-53

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 11:27:22

    Marked on the 25" as a Cavalry barracks, and a poster to the right of the gate looks like 12 small pictures of horseys. I wonder if they sold horses on to the locals?

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    derangedlemur

    • 07/May/2021 12:27:43

    It's in Malahide now: catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000046146

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    Bernard Healy

    • 07/May/2021 13:07:52

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] If you look here, you'll see that the artist's signature on that poster is JB Baldwin '09. So we're almost certainly talking about 1909 or later. www.cowanauctions.com/lot/world-war-i-british-posters-lot...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 14:47:52

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] That one is clearly dated, and is the same as the Alamy one I linked, but this one via twitter is a similar image, but on a different background (vegetation rather than a barracks). via twitter And I think todays is a different poster using the same image with slightly different text. So did JB Baldwin repaint an earlier image, or did someone after 09 repaint based on Baldwin's image? I think it is only safe to say 1901 onwards.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 07/May/2021 15:17:59

    The 25" does not mark the pump. It does mark a number of Boundary Stones, which seem to mark out a ward boundary. In megazoom, I think the light coloured stone in the corner left of all the posters may be one. Looking at streetview, I think at least one may still be there near the big ESB box. Here is one on the far side of the barracks which survives: goo.gl/maps/Xx2cBa8wUD8UXx167 . It says W (up arrow) D No. 2 Street?

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    Bernard Healy

    • 07/May/2021 16:50:13

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Very fair point. BTW, folks might be interested to note that the arrangement of buttons on the tunic indicate what regiment the Foot Guards are from. The Grenadier Guards have their tunic buttons singly; the Coldstream Guards have theirs in pairs, the Scots Guards in groups of three and the Irish Guards in groups of four. So if you're ever at the Changing of the Guard in London, it's easy to see what regiment is doing it.

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    Rory_Sherlock

    • 07/May/2021 19:01:32

    The British army billeted soldiers in the 'Round House' in the 1840s. Soon there arose some controversy within the administration regarding the ownership of the building and the officer of the Royal Engineers who surveyed it considered it to be the property of the Ordnance Board since the time of Lord Longford’s original deed of 1774. The Ordnance Solicitor then examined the case and expressed the opinion, on 23 Dec 1848, that it was conveyed from Lord Longford to the Barrack Master General in Ireland by deed in 1800. He gained support for this view initially from Lord Longford’s agents, and his letter was forwarded from the Commanding Royal Engineer in Ireland to the Inspector General of Fortifications four days later seeking the authority to permit the Ordnance Solicitor to seek recovery of the premises. The Ordnance Solicitor subsequently reported, however, that another deed had since been found by Lord Longford’s agents which was dated a few years prior to Lord Longford’s deed of 1774 and, as this earlier deed was a lease agreement whereby a Captain Agnew was given possession of the Round House by Lord Longford ‘for lives renewable for ever’ , the Ordnance Solicitor expressed the opinion, on 20 Mar 1849, that the Office of Ordnance had no claim to the building. In 1850 a new controversy arose regarding the building, for though soldiers had been accommodated in the Round House since 19 June 1848, no rent had yet been paid to the landlord, Mr Morgan. The Barrack Master at Longford had suggested that no rent should be paid to Morgan until he gave the army full possession of the premises, as he had retained a small room or cabin in the yard to the rear of the premises for the use of a blacksmith named Armstrong. This suggestion was dismissed however, since the army were not considered to be at any loss by their inability to use that room, and a recommendation was made to pay Morgan the £45 owned to him for 18 months rent up to 19 Dec 1849. The army now proposed to withdraw their troops from the building and so permission was sought to make the necessary repairs, costing £3 16s 9d, to restore the building to the state it had been in when it was leased in 1848. Details summarised from WO 44_582 in the National Archives, Kew, London Other photos of the building exist in the Irish Architectural Archive, including one with a white truck parked in front of it (possibly an Irish Army truck in UN colour scheme) and one where the building has been reduced to a pile of rubble (IAA B8/27/26)

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    Rory_Sherlock

    • 07/May/2021 19:24:02

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] The Boundary Stones don't mark a ward boundary, they mark the corners of War Department property. There were 24 of them around the perimeter of the Cavalry Barracks at Longford - I think the stone to the left of the posters in this old photo is No.23. The best preserved today is No. 24, which was on the next corner to the left (just a few meters away) and which is visible on the Streetview - here's a close up: DSC_2877 Comparing the modern Streetview images to the photo above, there is one section of wall which survives - it is the section between the 'poster wall' (now gone) and the 'castle wall' (also gone) and is identifiable because of its sloping top (sloping down from the side of the castle to the corner where it meets the 'poster wall'). This looks at first glance to be part of the castle in the photo above, and has been painted beige in modern times, but it is actually part of the barracks: Boundary Stone 23 once marked the corner where the 'poster wall' met this next section of the barrack wall at a right angle, while Boundary Stone 24 (now visible on Streetview but hidden on the old photo above behind the steps leading up to the castle door) marked then next corner on this section of the barrack perimeter, where the short sloping-top (and now beige) wall turned again at a right angle to run down the side of the castle - an invisible section of the boundary in the old photo above, but now visible on Streetview (after the removal of the castle) as a stained beige wall with a flat top to the left of the 'sloping-top' section... Hope this makes sense!

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    Rory_Sherlock

    • 07/May/2021 19:36:07

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley The stone on Lisbrack Road which you found on Streetview relates to the Artillery Barracks which stood almost 1km to the north of the Cavalry Barracks - the GAA stadium (Pearse Park) and the Pearse View houses now stand on the site of the Artillery Barracks,

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    suckindeesel

    • 07/May/2021 20:49:59

    25" (1911) link geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 08/May/2021 07:42:13

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ very interesting!

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 08/May/2021 08:32:46

    Good stuff - has anyone come across information when the old castle was restored, with new roof, render, etc? Must have been ca. 1890, as the render is already looking dodgy and damp in parts in this photo. See my previous 'Yikes' comment and catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000320156 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000332584 BUT - Mr 'W.R. & S.' for Eason was also there before the renovation, and he's after 1900. Not making sense! - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000558668 - there is an illegible poster about recruits(?) and a date (?)

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    Niall McAuley

    • 08/May/2021 15:42:47

    Went for a pooch around the Athlone Barracks today, and look what I found: Boundary Stone

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    Niall McAuley

    • 08/May/2021 16:39:54

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Recruits Wanted

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    derangedlemur

    • 09/May/2021 08:00:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Perhaps they built a few like that. :-)

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    Niall McAuley

    • 09/May/2021 10:32:00

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] I think the poster is one of these: Recruits Wanted As you say, after 1901. They continued to use that poster later than our range, changing to GR instead of ER.