Understated elegance from Plumstead

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Where: Unknown

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When: 06 June 1938

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For a Monday morning with the lockdowns easing it is nice to celebrate, and what better way to do so than with a small wedding image. Some people, even though they have been posed, have a natural elegance, and the couple in this shot have just that. Commissioned by Mr. Holohan of Plumstead in London, this may not be that easy to add information to? Or will it?

Photographer: Poole Studio Photographer

Collection: Poole Photographic Collection, Waterford

Date: ca. 1901-1954 Around Monday, 6 June 1938.

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 4261

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie


Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 5336
ahpoole arthurhenripoole poolecollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland weddingday plumstead london scroope houlihan peopleidentified dateestablished johnhoulihan johnernesthoulihan anastasiascroope june 1938 1930s 20thcentury monday

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  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 10/May/2021 07:36:42

    Early 1930s? (by the state of the carpet!)

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 08:15:56

    Next door in the catalogue is POOLEWP 4260, with the happy couple and witnesses, titled Holohan Scroope Wedding. And then POOLEWP 4259, general group of all.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 08:19:37

    And here in the civil records is the wedding of John Ernest Houlihan and Anastasia Scroope, 6th of June, 1938. Witnesses Francis Wright and Teresa Houlihan.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 08:31:28

    Odd that in 1938 Anastasia's fathers occupation is listed as RIC, when the RIC ceased to exist in what, 1921?

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 10/May/2021 08:45:33

    6 June 1938 was a Monday ,,,

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 10/May/2021 09:07:25

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] Her father’s death cert is here: civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/death.... Ex-RIC Sergeant. He was born c.1865, so he’d have been mid-50s when the RIC was dissolved. Not totally sure what pension provisions were made for Ex-RIC men, but I think that a man of that age & seniority may well have been able to get by on a pension.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 09:42:25

    Here is Anthony Scroope and family in the 1901 census, Policeman, acting Sergt. His wife is Anastatia, too, 5 sons at the time. I don't see a birth record for today's Anastasia... Another son and a daughter Cristina by 1911, which indicates 11 children, 9 living, so at least 2 more somewhere at the time of the census. Wait, there is older daughter Margeretta in 1911.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 10/May/2021 10:06:28

    Trying to imagine what her dress looked like, so whacked the photo into one of those free colourizer thingies - pale grey with red leaves ?? [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia/51170457624/in/dateposted/] via playback.fm/colorize-photo

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 10:08:39

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] On the wedding record of older son Nicholas Henry in 1914, da Anthony is given as a Merchant. Maybe because RIC man was not a thing they wanted to record, but also possible that he had already finished in the RIC and was running a pub by then.

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 10/May/2021 10:10:44

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Here are the Scroopes in 1911: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Water... I can't find Anthony in the 1911 Census, but I'd assume that he's somewhere in the special returns for RIC Barracks where only initials are used. I can't track down Anastasia's birth record either. Given that she was married in 1938, but doesn't seem to be in the 1911 census, I'd imagine that she was born in the period 1911-20. There SHOULD be a record for her, but perhaps her father was assigned somewhere else - either in one of the northern counties or maybe even to one of the 'Colonial' police forces. Or it's possible that there's a gap in the records. Her parents' marriage (Anthony Scroope & Anastasia Whitty) in 1888: civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marri...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 10:19:08

    Another London connection: on the record of the death of Annie Josephine Scroope in 1953, her husband P. W. Scroope (surely Anastasia's brother Patrick W) gives his address as 29 Catherine Street, London WC2. It refers to her as Wife of Licensee, and 29 Catherine street is a small pub: Streetview

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 10:22:55

    Mother Anastasia died in 1931 aged 65.

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 10/May/2021 10:24:53

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley That's definitely a possibility. What'd tell the full story would be his RIC records. I've only done a quick bit of googling, but I suspect he might have qualified for retirement by then. In an article about another RIC man, I see it recorded that if you don't reach particular ranks by particular ages, you become ineligible for promotion. Likewise, that other article mentioned the ability to retire on full pension after 30 years of service. Anthony was born c.1865. Let's say he joined age 18 - i.e. 1883. He'd have reached 30 years of service in 1913 & might not have had great promotion prospects. Perhaps he was retired. I could be wrong, but I think 1914 was a little early for there to be a stigma around being a Sgt in the RIC or an RIC pensioner. The fact that it shows up on his death cert - rather than retired merchant - is suggestive.

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 10/May/2021 10:44:38

    There's a John Ernest Houlihan in the British BMD records (via freebmd.org) born 3rd quarter 1900 in Woolwich registration district died 3rd quarter 1983 in Greenwich registration district 1 death record in the frame for an Anastasia Houlihan died 1985 in Kensington and Chelsea registration district (born December 1905) https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Also Patrick W Scroope died 4th quarter 1963 aged 63

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 10:46:40

    Anastasia snr's death record gives their address as 31 St. Ursula's Terrace. Here is a streetview, and also an undated distant catalogue view, POOLEWP 2449 (#31 is towards the far end).

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 10/May/2021 10:49:47

    From the same source, Patrick W Scroope married Annie J O'Sullivan in 3rd quarter 1926 in Greenwich registration district. They had a son Anthony B in 4th quarter 1927 (also registered in Greenwich)

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 10:53:17

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] December 1905 finds her birth record, mistranscribed as Anastatia Seroope, address Ursula's Terrace. Very likely they were living there when that catalogue shot was taken.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 11:00:06

    I think that must be her in the 1911 census recorded as Cristina, 5. I don't see any later Scroope/Seroope children (even using mothers name Whitty), so I think she was the youngest.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 10/May/2021 13:08:05

    The groom's address is 24 Waverly Crescent, London SE18: Streetview

  • profile

    Bernard Healy

    • 10/May/2021 14:08:14

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley If you look closely, above the door seems to read "8 John's Villas". My guess is that the houses with the bay windows to the left & the right were originally a development (possibly Edwardian?) called John's Villas, but they were re-numbered to be part of Waverly Crescent. If 10 Waverly Crescent was originally 1 John's Villas, then (counting up by twos) 24 Waverly Crescent would be 8 John's Villas. Looking at the designs of the houses, I reckon that 10 Waverly Crescent looks earlier than its neighour to the right. Various architectural similarities make it look like we have a series of houses by the same builder from 10 Waverly Crescent to 30 Waverly Crescent. I'd be willing to wager that 30 Waverly Crescent was orginally 12 John's Villas.