Naval manoeuvres on the Galway Mayo border!

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Where: Connaught, County Mayo, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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What a fantastic photograph from the Lawrence organisation, we are looking out on Irelands only fjord commonly known as Killary Harbour one of only three fjords in Ireland the other two being Carlingford Lough and Lough Swilly. I see the water is flat calm which anyone who knows the area will tell you is a rare occurrence indeed. We have come across Royal visits to this area before, but this looks more like a naval exercise? I am really looking forward to reading your findings on this one.

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1865 - 1914 Sunday, October 8th 1899

NLI Ref: L_ROY_06469

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 1185
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio thelawrencephotographcollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland leenane galway cogalway connaught killaryfjord killaryharbour thekillary leenaun thefleet 1899 majestic magnificent hannibal jupiter mars diadem furious pactolus resolution repulse niobe arrogant limerickbybeachcomber

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 30/Jul/2021 06:53:51

    "The Channel Squadron at Anchor in Killary Harbour, County Mayo, Ireland on Sunday, October 8th, 1899. “Pelorus” is in the foreground and “Mars” is amongst the battleships anchored to seaward ... ... " From - www.viewing.com/Pelorus/Pelorus.htm

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 30/Jul/2021 06:58:55

    Madam, - In the Lawrence Collection there is a photograph of the Channel Squadron of the Royal Navy at anchor in Killary Harbour in the West of Ireland. I have researched this considerably and have concluded that it was on the morning of Sunday, October 8th 1899. I have examined the logs of some of the ships present and would like to explore the position a little more. If any of your readers have any information which could assist me I would be grateful if they would contact me at the address below, fax 01-6671080 - Yours, etc., BRENDAN WALSH, 34 Upper Baggot Street, Dublin 4. 21/06/2003 See - www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/royal-navy-ships-at-ki... Now, what extra information can we find? ... ...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 07:15:00

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Mapped and date adjusted.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 30/Jul/2021 07:23:32

    Flickr is sometimes amazing! HMS 'Pelorus' via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/jcinanshan/] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/jcinanshan/31155768336/] And via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/alimarante/] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/alimarante/7764931874/] Wikipedia - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Pelorus_(1896)

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 07:36:08

    Majestic, Magnificent, Hannibal, Ropulso, Jupiter, Mars, Diadem, Furious, Pactolus and 3 others which are unreadable from Irish times 10/10/1899 stating the fleet left The Killeries yesterday. Unreadable could be - Resolut(xxx), Amgant or Imgant, Nighe all three open to correction.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 30/Jul/2021 07:44:09

    Streeview - goo.gl/maps/DzBCUunLpJF7hPPW8 I think the tide was lower in the photo (see that small island) and was going out; that is why the ships are pointing upstream (?). So if anyone can work out the tides for 08/10/1899 we might get a likely time of day !! Edit - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia/51344870758/]

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 30/Jul/2021 07:50:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] The wiki page for the 'Channel Fleet' says in 1895 the ships were - 5 battleships: Royal Sovereign, Empress of India, Resolution, and Repulse 5 cruisers: Blenheim, Endymion, Bellona, Halcyon, and Speedy. Probably changed every few months. See - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Fleet

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    derangedlemur

    • 30/Jul/2021 08:25:10

    (Cough!) Carlingf(j)ord

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    John Spooner

    • 30/Jul/2021 08:39:40

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland The BNA version of the Irish Times for 10/10/1899 says: Majestic. Magnificent. Hannibal, Resolution, Jupiter, Mars, Diadem, Niobe, Arrogant, Furious, and Pactolus is this a mis-transcribed name by the Irish Times? Niobe, in Greek mythology, the daughter of Tantalus (king of Sipylus in Lydia) and the wife of King Amphion of Thebes. She was the prototype of the bereaved mother, weeping for the loss of her children. According to legend, King Midas divested himself of the golden touch by washing himself in the river Pactolus. The historian Herodotus claimed that the gold contained in the sediments carried by the river was the source of the wealth of King Croesus. Back to the fleet, "Visitors were allowed on board, and most spoke highly of the courtesy they received."

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    John Spooner

    • 30/Jul/2021 08:52:19

    To confuse matters further, HMS Pactolus (1896-1921) was a cruiser of the Pelorus class (of which HMS Pelorus was one). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Pactolus

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    John Spooner

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:01:36

    On 16th October 1899, the Derry Journal listed the ships of the Channel Squadron, on the occasion of its visit to Lough Swilly First-class battleships: Majestic, Magnificent, Mars, Prince George, Hannibal, Jupiter, Repulse, Resolution, First-class cruisers: Diadem, Niobe, Second-class cruisers: Arrogant, Furious, Third class cruisers: Pultoens I can't find an HMS Pultoens - mis-transcription? , Pelorus

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:03:52

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] mea culpa, are you happy with the description now?

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    derangedlemur

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:09:13

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland It's super!

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:17:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I had a look at the Irish times again and with the information you supplied and what I can see from a very hazy reproduction the full list is, Majestic, Magnificent, Hannibal, Resolution, Repulse, Jupiter, Mars, Diadem, Niobe, Arrogant, Furious and Pactolus. Repulse being the only difference to your list.

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    John Spooner

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:20:32

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Oops. Repulse should have been on my list - I somehow missed it.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:27:31

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner We did get there in the end which is always commendable!

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    John Spooner

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:33:44

    The Prince George missed Killary Harbour because it she had to return to Queenstown to land nine marines who had been injured when a derrick had broken when hoisting a boat on board. The Channel Squadron had performed anti-torpedo exercises in Bantry Bay. That rang a bell. I'm sure there's a picture (I think it was a drawing) on this stream where torpedos and Bantry Bay were discussed, but I can't find it. [Edit: Someone included the drawing in the comments of this picture www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/22691545593 and it was from 1885 and involved using torpedos to attack rather than defend against them]

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 09:42:57

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner The system works.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 30/Jul/2021 10:17:49

    I visited Killary Harbour for the first time ever on Wednesday evening. (Climbed Croagh Patrick yesterday!) If this pic had been posted a couple of days earlier I could have snapped a present-day shot.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 30/Jul/2021 10:22:58

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] The letter writer’s obituary. www.irishtimes.com/opinion/dublin-sheriff-behind-many-hig...

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 30/Jul/2021 12:30:44

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] What a pity; I am sure he would have interested in this discussion. Confused: is this the 'Pelorus' or the 'Pactolus'? [Aside] HMS 'Pelorus' went on an amazing trip right up the Amazon in 2009 1909 - dawlishchronicles.com/2020/10/02/6822/ . A year before Roger Casement, but he knew about it - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000723336

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    suckindeesel

    • 30/Jul/2021 12:41:15

    Just about every ship present was only a couple of years old, but nearly all were scrapped by the 1920s.

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    derangedlemur

    • 30/Jul/2021 13:43:40

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Stranded assets, even if none of them ran aground. They weren't any good by 1920 - too useless as battleships, not enough money to convert to aircraft carriers like the Furious, even if that had been recognised as a use, and no good for civilian use.

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    John Spooner

    • 30/Jul/2021 13:53:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] Both Pelorus and Pactolus were part of the Channel Squadron, but the Irish Times only mentions the Pactolus as being in Killary Harbour. I couldn't find any mention of Pelorus being elsewhere. Perhaps she accompanied the Prince George to Queenstown and then direct to Lough Swilly, but being a mere 3rd class cruiser wasn't worth mentioning. But Brendon Walsh seems sure its the Pelorus, and he'd examined some of the logs (but did he include the Pelorus?). Is it an error in the Irish Times? It looks like I have another couple of things to add to the list for when I next go to Kew. discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1479255 discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1479178 BTW I stayed at Killary Harbour Youth Hostel in about 1986. A very impressive view from the common room window across the fjord with the mountain rising straight out of the water. Streetview view from in front of the youth hostel

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 15:55:53

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I went mackerel fishing from that exact spot with my niece and nephew last summer, we caught over 40 fish!

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2021 16:04:22

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy Well done with the climbing!!

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    suckindeesel

    • 30/Jul/2021 20:12:48

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Rear Admiral Cresswell, the 1st Naval Member of the Australian Naval Board described Psyche and Pyramus in 1914 as "the unspeakably useless P. class

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    derangedlemur

    • 30/Jul/2021 20:41:51

    Seems reasonable. Famously, A boat is a hole in the water into which one pours money, and after our fellow countryman, Parsons, had rendered the entire fleet obsolete with his non-reciprocating motor, all you could do was try to staunch the flow.

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    John Spooner

    • 30/Jul/2021 21:11:22

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] On the very day that the Fleet was steaming into Killary Harbour, St James's Gazette (Saturday 07 October 1899) gave a similar opinion of the Pelorus class of cruisers - not much use in a sea-battle and poor VFM.

    It scarcely seems as if three, four, or even five "Arrogants” could count on a successful action with a single "Diadem," more especially as the latter, having the higher speed, could in all probability engage her adversaries seriatim. Similarly a single “Arrogant” should dispose of almost any number of the Pelorus type of third-class cruiser—and yet it is extremely doubtful if more than two "Peloruses" could be built and kept in commission for the sum sufficing for a single “Arrogant.” Besides the greater cost maintenance of the smaller ships, there is the necessity of replacing them after shorter interval, for the bigger a ship the longer she lasts.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 30/Jul/2021 22:01:31

    ⚓The HMS 'Pelorus' Limerick⚓ 'Twas on the good ship 'Pelorus' By Gad, you should have saw us! Beans, bangers and mash, Rum, buggery, and lash, Combined into permanent sore @rse!
    (with a nod and a wink to the good ship Venus)

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 03/Aug/2021 09:23:24

    Is that a periscope of a Republic of Ireland submarine I see, lurking near the island?

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    Bernard Healy

    • 04/Aug/2021 09:43:18

    Running through my photos from last week, this is probably the closest to the angle of the fleet picture. flic.kr/p/2mfdrGx