When is a cross not a cross?

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Where: N Ireland, Ards and North Down, UK

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When: Unknown

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Old Cross in Newtownards, Co. Down must refer to a cross roads because otherwise there is no cross in sight? A very interesting image from the Eason Collection with girls in pinafores, boys in bare feet a water fountain, a patient nag outside stables and traffic in the distance. Is the fountain still there, where is the Old Cross, and what does it look like now?

Photographer: Unknown

Collection: Eason Photographic Collection

Date: betweenCirca 1900-1939 1903

NLI Ref: EAS_1418

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 19923
eason easonson easoncollection easonphotographiccollection glassnegative 20thcentury nationallibraryofireland oldcross newtownards countydown ardspeninsula ulster northernireland fountain

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  • profile

    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 20/Dec/2021 08:13:25

    Still there! But a new dragon weathervane, I think - goo.gl/maps/TgdVWiAszL72zXrv8

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 20/Dec/2021 08:31:32

    Flickr is sometimes amazing! 1920s? via https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/, who has a fine collection of Old Cross photos - https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/23829816269/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/24171463026/N.B. - Telegraph poles on the left.

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    i-lenticularis (NO GRAPHICS)

    • 20/Dec/2021 08:47:54

    I actually photographed this less than a month ago when Covid caused me to travel back from Australia. It's known as the Old Market Cross and the oldest date I found was 1636.

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    i-lenticularis (NO GRAPHICS)

    • 20/Dec/2021 08:49:10

    My photo from Nov 2021, with some gargoyles restored: flic.kr/p/2mPrY6X

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 20/Dec/2021 09:07:43

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/smoooooth-lll D Mc, I will show your photo here. Mary https://www.flickr.com/photos/smoooooth-lll/51732769745/

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    Niall McAuley

    • 20/Dec/2021 09:10:02

    I think we had a date range previously for the WR&S images, early enough in the Eason range? William Ritchie & Sons, Ltd. (WR&S) was a postcard publishing company in the first decades of the twentieth century in London, England, and Edinburgh, Scotland. The firm published view postcards depicting England, Scotland, and Ireland under the "Reliable Series" name.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 20/Dec/2021 09:15:10

    Not a million miles away in the catalogue, 1902: "Servant Girls as Spies"

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 20/Dec/2021 09:17:01

    Mr French / Lawrence was slightly to the right, and later (?) because of telephone pole etc in the distance - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318783

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 20/Dec/2021 09:58:15

    Of interest - we had the reverse view (Mr French / Lawrence) before. It shows telephone wires fixed to the chimneys in this street. Not apparent in today's photo, so this Lawrence might need a nudge forward a few years. catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000040721 [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/31152857190/in/photolist-2mRHN4B-PsSx6q]

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 20/Dec/2021 10:00:22

    Would it not be wonderful and amazing if the children in the photos were the same but older ... ?

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    i-lenticularis (NO GRAPHICS)

    • 20/Dec/2021 10:12:30

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Thanks Mary!

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    cargeofg

    • 20/Dec/2021 11:26:38

    In the plate linked by https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia You have a clearer view of the 3 rows telephone insulators on the chimney stack. Top (bent) one is only just visible in todays photo(see note)

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 20/Dec/2021 11:55:38

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/smoooooth-lll In the "Chatter" column in the Irvine Times on Friday 12 August 1887, the writer "The Ayrshire Magpie" speculates on the 1636 date of the Cross, and its predecessor(s):

    ANOTHER thing of interest is the pedestal of the Old Cross of Newtonards which stands in the centre of the town. It is octagonal in structure and of hewn stone, and bears an inscription to the fact that it was erected in 1636. But this also must have been the site of a more ancient cross restored by the Montgomeries, for the armorial bearings on it are those of this branch of the Eglinton family. These armorial bearings were defaced by the rebels in 1653, but were replaced again by the loyal citizens in 1666, after the restoration of Charles II. The site of this pedestal which the country people still call "The Cross" is undoubtedly the site of an ancient cross which was in existence before the Protestant settlers from Scotland entered into possession of the district.

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    i-lenticularis (NO GRAPHICS)

    • 20/Dec/2021 12:16:18

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner That is very interesting, thanks!

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 20/Dec/2021 17:30:55

    Here's the original 'Reliable Series' postcard on Alamo www.alamy.com/aggregator-api/download/?url=https%3A%2F%2F...

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 20/Dec/2021 18:16:55

    Two results from Tineye, upper one is original postcard. The lower one contains a date '10th May 1904'. However am unable to open that site flic.kr/p/2mRH3kD

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 20/Dec/2021 20:13:17

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Good find! A little more history via Geocaching - " ... Market crosses were built in many Ulster towns as symbols of the successful establishment of a market. The original cross in Newtownards was built in 1636 and was rebuilt after destruction by Cromwell’s troops in 1653. It is now the only surviving seventeenth century market cross in Ulster. The original building was less than 11 feet tall and octagonal in shape with a low door and staircase leading to the roof. The present replacement building was finished in 1666. Its conical roof was probably used as an office or shelter for the town’s night watchmen. Towns people say that the Cross used to "flow with wine" at the birth of a royal baby. Its importance declined when the new market house was built in Conway square in 1765. The story goes that the cross was the centre for local commerce and a bargain struck within its shadow was legally binding. An octagonal building it is about twenty feet high and topped with a weather vane. It is made of wrought iron and Scrabo sandstone. Each panel of the octagon measures 5 feet 6 inches in length. The complete cross is 10 feet 10 inches from the pedestal cornice, but lower walls are now obscured by a modern plinth. On the northeast face there is a lintel lead door opening. The other faces have niches segmental in plan with semi-domed head and carved scallop shell. Each of the panels on the side of the cross has a carving and these include images of a rose, a helmet with the horns of a half moon, a fleur-de-lys within a laurel wreath, a cross within a coronet and the Shaw, Montgomery, Royal and Irish Coats of arms. ..." From - www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC23TQW_newtownards-historica...

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 20/Dec/2021 20:29:34

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Interesting info, just wish I could have accessed that site to see what the date was based on

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 20/Dec/2021 20:37:59

    An eBay listing for the original post card. Date is unclear, but seller thinks 1906, with note on back claiming photo date of 1898 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Cross-High-Street-Newtownards-Co-D...

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Dec/2021 20:41:16

    This site says 1904 www.prints-online.com/old-cross-high-street-newtownards-1...

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Dec/2021 20:42:54

    This site says 1903 www.rosdavies.com/PHOTOSwords/NewtownardsAll.htm

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Dec/2021 20:46:36

    flic.kr/p/2mRTbwG

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 21/Dec/2021 01:30:51

    In answer to the question posed, "When is a cross not a cross?", that would be when it is a crucifix.

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    Flickr

    • 21/Dec/2021 04:15:25

    Congrats on Explore! ⭐ December 20, 2021

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    _patclancy56

    • 21/Dec/2021 04:40:02

    Nice, Congrats on Explore

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 21/Dec/2021 05:21:00

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/51760322340/ On the basis of this postcard and comments above I am changing the date to circa 1900 to 1903.

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    Brunswick Forge

    • 21/Dec/2021 05:26:22

    📷👍❤This is an excellent addition to today's Explore page.💕 ❤ 👍📷 Greetings from southwestern Virginia, USA.💕

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    s0340248

    • 21/Dec/2021 05:48:21

    Glückwunsch zu Explore !

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    gato-gato-gato

    • 21/Dec/2021 07:08:16

    Schön

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    incognito7nyc

    • 21/Dec/2021 07:33:13

    ✨🌟★❤✯ This is a very beautiful and remarkable photograph ✯❤★🌟✨

  • profile

    Un jour en France

    • 21/Dec/2021 08:40:16

    Congrats on Explore ! 🌟

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    waewduan4

    • 21/Dec/2021 08:44:10

    Congrats........

  • profile

    "santiago"

    • 21/Dec/2021 18:43:56

    Excel.lent tret en blanc i negre. Merescut ⭐. Enhorabona.

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    moccasinlanding

    • 24/Dec/2021 19:26:28

    Always love to watch the loyal diehards sleuthing out the facts! Pleased to see you're in EXPLORE! Good show!!!!

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Dec/2021 06:21:31

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/moccasinlanding Thank you, Mary

  • profile

    Photoamble.

    • 21/Feb/2022 10:56:37

    When its a water fountain.