Fear naught Dreadnaught

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Where: Munster, Limerick, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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The fleet at Foynes, Co. Limerick on the top of the tide and on a flat calm on the Shannon Estuary. Little did Morning Mary think when rowing in a regatta in Foynes that those same waters once held these giants of the seas! The weather must have been fine with the awnings up around the ships and there is no evidence that they are going anywhere soon so they could sit back and enjoy the peace?

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1865 - 1914

NLI Ref: L_ROY_09699

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 14866
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio thelawrencephotographcollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland foynes colimerick rivershannon atlanticfleet dreadnought battleships royalnavy coclare shannonestuary munster he

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  • profile

    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 23/Feb/2022 08:57:32

    Other photos show there were at least six ships, And it seems to be laundry day - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318167 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318166 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000330801

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 23/Feb/2022 09:08:57

    The ships are camouflaged. It must be close to 1914, WW1 ? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_camouflage

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    derangedlemur

    • 23/Feb/2022 09:40:47

    They look a bit pre-dreadnought, with those untidy lines; they might be the 6 ships of the Duncan class. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan-class_battleship

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    derangedlemur

    • 23/Feb/2022 09:45:04

    Possibly 1899? Madam, - In the Lawrence Collection there is a photograph of the Channel Squadron of the Royal Navy at anchor in Killary Harbour in the West of Ireland. I have researched this considerably and have concluded that it was on the morning of Sunday, October 8th 1899. I have examined the logs of some of the ships present and would like to explore the position a little more. If any of your readers have any information which could assist me I would be grateful if they would contact me at the address below, fax 01-6671080 - Yours, etc.,

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 10:29:30

    Coloured in, for a postcard maybe? www.historicalpicturearchive.com/shop/pictures/lk-00250/

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 10:36:30

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Here is the fleet in Killary, same ships? Naval manoeuvres on the Galway Mayo border!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 10:37:35

    The catalogue numbers are quite far apart...

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    derangedlemur

    • 23/Feb/2022 10:45:07

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Could be the ones in the background. The Killary shot is quite a bit earlier, though - The paint jobs are solidly 19th century. I'm inclined to agree with Beachy that these ones look 20th Century.

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    Rory_Sherlock

    • 23/Feb/2022 11:05:01

    Funnel identification bands were apparently introduced in 1903 and removed in 1914, so that might help with the date - if we could find more detail on the system, we should be able to identify each ship on the basis of the funnel markings

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    derangedlemur

    • 23/Feb/2022 11:34:16

    www.hmsnatal.co.uk/cruiserfunnelmarkings.asp

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 23/Feb/2022 11:50:26

    The nearest ship has weird aerials (see note and megazoom). Matches those on the photo of HMS 'Albemarle' (at full blast) in the Lemur's link for Duncan class above, or upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/HMS_Albemarle...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 11:50:30

    Nearby in the catalogue is a General View of Foynes which includes the 1910 Post Office: L_ROY_09696 And nearby in the other direction, the Post Office again, with sailors! L_ROY_09704. The harbour, the rear of the 1910 Post Office, and boatloads of sailors in from the fleet: L_ROY_09707

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 23/Feb/2022 11:55:27

    Sometimes Flickr is amazing! Via https://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/6559347655/

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 12:43:32

    I don't have access to the irish newspaper archives, but it does let me look at headlines: Limerick Leader Wednesday June 26, 1912 Untitled Article ind _Foyn s Wednesday July 14, 1909 Untitled Article THE FLEET AT FOYNES Monday August 20, 1906 Untitled Article ATLAN T I C FLEET TO FOYNES,

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 12:47:04

    Indo: Tuesday September 29, 1908 Untitled Article Atlantic Fleet on their visit to Foynes, and stating that his officers and cien and himself reciprocated the good feeling and friendship shown to them by the citizens. Saturday July 13, 1907 ITEMS OF" INTEREST (By "Wire and- DesnutoliJ The Atlantic 'Fleet,. The Atlantic. Fleet of 6 first-class hat Heships and. 2 cruisens left _Foynes, on, . Monday June 17, 1907 Untitled Article The Atlantic Fleet, under Vice-Admiral Sir A. G. Co;_raan . Howe, will visit the Shannon on the 3rd July, remain ing: at anchor for ni'ii'i* days, in Foyne Harbour.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 12:51:50

    Freemans: Tuesday September 08, 1908 LIMERIOK AND THE ATLANTIC FLJEET. • their meeting to-day passod a rosolution, on tho proposition' of Sir Thomas Cleove, seconded by Mr, John Hayes, extending a cead mile fnilto to Admiral Sir Curzon I_^owq _, his oflicors and mon of the Boyal Navy, on tho occasion el tho third visit within a short period of the Atlantic Tricot'to Foynes during their cruise lound the _lrijh coast, and _hoping tho _citizens of Limer ick would renew the acquaintance of the officers and men of tin Fleet. Saturday November 10, 1906 Untitled Article The presence of the Channel fleet in the Shannon will recall _a_%very remarkable _conversation between _Napoleon, when a-n exile in St. _iHoIcna_, and a Captain Watson, HA1 ., ;whose chip anchored in tho roads oi St. Wednesday October 24, 1906 Untitled Article ¦ _; , x. _Foyncu, Tuesday. _^ews has been received at Foynes, on the lover Shannon, tiiat _tho Channel Fleet, of nearly twenty vessels, most _boinR first-class battleships, wdl arrive in.Fdynes Harbour on tho. 6th _November, aad._roiiuia._lhwo _liil tlio 12th NoTombtf. ¦ -

  • profile

    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 23/Feb/2022 13:00:34

    Red Herring, but of interest - recollections of a couple of Old Sea Dogs about 'Gun Calibrating' (the long barrels drooped evidently) in 1905 in Bantry Bay, HMS 'Albemarle' etc were involved. Via Trove - trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38418545?searchTerm=ir... Edit - A snippet - ... P.S.-Which reminds me that a chap in a target repairing party was left behind by accident during one practice and he wasn't missed until the boat had returned to the towing ship. By that time the firing ship had opened fire and only stopped when the danger flag was hurriedly hoisted. When the boat returned to the target they found the chap prostrate on the platform with holes in the target not two feet above him. He was taken on board and placed in the sick bay. By next day half his hair had turned white and remained so for years. Probably others have heard of the same case, though it happened quite a long time ago.-"P."

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 13:02:59

    According to this naval history page, the Duncan class ships were in the Channel fleet from 1905-07, and the 5 still sailing in the Atlantic Fleet from 1907. At the end of 1908 the Exmouth and Duncan went to the Mediterranean fleet. So the press reports above and the time the 5 Duncan class were in the Atlantic Fleet suggest September 1908 for this shot. (The NIAH's c1910 for the Post Office may not be very precise, they list some of the houses in these shots as c1925, quite impossible.)

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    DannyM8

    • 23/Feb/2022 13:38:40

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley If September 1908 is correct and I think it is, The following gives most of the information we need. The fact we see 5 ships in the photo suggests that the date of our photo is Friday 18th September 1908. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/51898260897

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    suckindeesel

    • 23/Feb/2022 13:54:43

    “In 1906, Montagu was wrecked off Lundy Island and could not be salvaged” per Wiki Two more were lost to u-boats in 1916 & 1917. So, our picture shows the five that were in existence between 1906 & 1916. However, they were sent to reinforce the Grand Fleet following the outbreak of war in 1914. That narrows it down to between 1906 & 1914, if they are the Duncan class

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    Niall McAuley

    • 23/Feb/2022 14:14:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] The Arrogant had 3 funnels, and the Duncan class was more than twice the size of the Venus, so I think the 5 we see here are the 5 battleships Exmouth, Duncan, Albemarle, Russell and Cornwallis.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 23/Feb/2022 20:32:27

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] There were SIX ships here (see my first comment and links). All nearly identical except for stripes on the funnels. And the nearby ship has extra height crosses and cartwheels aerials, which makes me think she is the 'Albemarle'. Complicated and very confusing. But fascinating.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 24/Feb/2022 15:53:07

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia There were only 6 Duncan class ships built, and the Montagu was wrecked before the others joined the Atlantic fleet. So if all 6 are here, this is before May 1906, on some occasion when the Channel fleet visited Foynes in 1905-06, or the Mediterranean fleet in 1904.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 24/Feb/2022 20:57:34

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Yes! It might even be the same cruise as the 1905 Bantry Bay story above. Funnel stripes information might solve this. Somewhere there must be a naval gazers site ... The Duncan Class wiki has this - ... The ships were fitted with Type 1 wireless telegraphy sets, with the exception of Exmouth, which received Type 2 sets. The remainder of the class had their Type 1s replaced with Type 2 sets later in their career, except for Montagu, which had already been wrecked by that time. ... I have zero idea what Type 1 and 2 wirelss sets look like, but it might be 'Exmouth' nearby, apart from the lack of funnel stripes matching the LoC photo of 'Albemarle' ... From - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan-class_battleship And I think I was wrong about camouflage; a trick of the light on shades of grey paint.

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    Flickr

    • 25/Feb/2022 04:15:27

    Congrats on Explore! ⭐ February 24, 2022

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    s0340248

    • 25/Feb/2022 05:29:01

    Glückwunsch zu Explore !

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    gato-gato-gato

    • 25/Feb/2022 07:07:12

    Cool.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 25/Feb/2022 08:59:41

    From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Russell_(1901): In 1909, Russell had her armament overhauled, which included the installation of new traversing and elevation gear and sighting equipment. She also had identification bands painted onto her funnels.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 25/Feb/2022 09:03:41

    Using search term funnel bands seems to get more hits than funnel stripes.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 25/Feb/2022 09:17:50

    According to British Battleships 1889-1904 at Google Books: 1905 Atlantic and Channel Fleet funnel bands painted-up for use as Fleet identification (see sketches): Albemarle one narrow band on each funnel; Russell one wide on each; Cornwallis two narrow on each; Montague one wide over one narrow on each; Duncan one narrow over one wide on each. In 1907-08: Original square control top in Albemarle and Duncan replaced by large oval type as in Exmouth and Russell. 1909-10: Albemarle one white each; Cornwallis one white on 2nd funnel; Duncan one white on fore; Exmouth one wide on each (Albemarle had hers painted out later, and Russell's were changed to two white on second funnel in 1911).

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    Niall McAuley

    • 25/Feb/2022 09:25:14

    Neither of these schemes match what we see, but there is a match for 1905 Duncan and Cornwallis, and the 6th ship matches 1905 Albemarle.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 25/Feb/2022 09:41:47

    Same book has a picture of Duncan in November 1905 - no bands. Also a pic of Albemarle in "early 1905", no bands. Duncan 1907 narrow over wide, but dark bands. The feckers changed them pretty often.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 25/Feb/2022 11:06:50

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley To confuse the enemy. And everybody else including us!

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    Brunswick Forge

    • 25/Feb/2022 23:34:25

    📷👍❤This is an excellent addition to today's Explore page.💕 🌟❤ 👍📷 Greetings from southwestern Virginia, USA.💕🌟✨