Horses meeting their Iron replacement
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Where: Leinster, Ireland
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When: Unknown
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Today we dip once again into the pool of Ephemera in the NLI's vast collection. A Postcard featuring the Scald Bank at the Guinness Brewery where two horses towing trucks meet what was intended to be their replacement. The Scald Bank didn't give out loans but what can we find out about it and the scene depicted therein?
Photographer: None
Collection:NLI Ephemera Collection
Date:Circa 1912
NLI Ref.: EPH A201
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 5313
Photographer: None
Collection:NLI Ephemera Collection
Date:Circa 1912
NLI Ref.: EPH A201
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 5313
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ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
The plot thickens - from the NLI notes - "Postcard displaying a photograph of the "Scald bank" or area for the unloading of empty casks at the Guinness Brewery in Dublin. It is addressed to Mrs. O'Shea, Main Street, Cashel, Co. Tipperary. The sender is 'Nellie' Corr and she writes regarding a visit that she intends to pay to the recipient. The postmark is dated August ? 1912 and was sent from Mallow, Co. Cork. A postage stamp to the value of one half penny with the image of King George V on verso. See EPH 200 for another Guinness related postcard with correspondence from 1910 between these two women."
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
On the link to the image at NLI you can move to the reverse of the postcard and read the detail of the message with the address and the stamp!
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
The other 1910 postmarked postcard - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000510298 Which implies this series of photos was before 1910 (??)
Niall McAuley
Margaret O'Shea, Main Street, Cashel, in 1911 census.
suckindeesel
Were they ‘scalded’, i.e. cleaned by steam or hot water, before being refilled.. Note the narrow gauge internal railway and the Irish Gauge line which went up John’s Rd. to the Guinness siding in Kingsbridge. The narrow gauge no. 13 has survived and is in the Narrow Gauge Railway Museum at Tywyn in Wales. 1’-10” gauge, 1895. The narrow gauge was used for transport within the brewery, the other line connected to CIE at Kingsbridge.
Niall McAuley
No Nellie Corr in Mallow, no Corrs in Mallow at all.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Flickr is sometimes amazing! Via https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Narrow Gauge Railway Museum, Tywyn - William Spence Ltd 0-4-0T of 1895 ex-Guinness No 13 6-8-11 An overtype locomotive and the first donated to the museum in 1956. Fitted into broad gauge converter wagons of course. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6915354291/
Niall McAuley
Marriage in 1902 of Thomas O'Shea and Margaret Coss in Cashel. Margaret Coss in 1901 census.
O Mac
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Margaret was 33 in 1901 and 38 in 1911?
Niall McAuley
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] The name on the other card is clearly Miss N. Coss, so Margarets unmarried sister? The card was addressed c/o Mrs. Delaney, Fair Street, Mallow, (who is in the 1911 census, but does not seem to be a boarding house keeper or anything). Then that was crossed out and addressed back to Mrs. O'Shea in Cashel. Looks like two postmarks, one frm Mallow on Aug 31st, and another from James... Dublin Aug 27th.
Niall McAuley
Dear Miss Coss excuse me not answering sooner but only the two letters came that you need + I posted them two together and one came back. I did not cross off my address so it was posted twice. Glad you are enjoying yourself R. Curran So this one is not from Margaret O'Shea at all.
suckindeesel
The brewery had over 8 miles of narrow gauge and 2 miles of broad gauge railway within the works. The site was steeply sloping and stretched from beyond Jame’s St. down to the quays. “To connect the two halves of the works and overcome the difference in levels, Mr Geoghegan constructed a spiral tunnel in the old brewery and took the narrow gauge line under James’s Street. The single track spiral tunnel contained the line’s steepest gradient, 1 in 39, and, in 2.65 turns raised the line about 35ft, with a spiral radius of 61.25ft” Horse drawn operation ceased in 1888, so photo itself predates postmark by many years rogerfarnworth.com/2019/04/26/the-guinness-brewery-railwa...
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Excellent job today, well done and thank you. Mary
O Mac
suckindeesel According to that interesting link you posted Engine no. 13 (above) was built in 1895. The horses could have been still used to move empty wagons about beyond 1888.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
The back of each postcard says " HUNT'S REAL PHOTO PROCESS ", which Google does not yet know about. Edit - Hunt was a printer in Manchester, via nwpcc.org.uk/index.php/research Wild goose chase ... I thought the photo plate serial numbers, 16171 and 16155, might originally be Valentine's. So put them into that dating thingy to get 1892 for both. Impossible if the locomotive is earliest 1895 ! www.historiccoventry.co.uk/main/pc-dating.php?pc=16171
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ That’s interesting, obviously the horse date 1888 is incorrect, as the 1895 loco date is quoted elsewhere. It’s not the only contradiction in the piece. Incidentally, many of the locos, both narrow and broad gauge, were made locally by William Spence, of the Cork Street Foundry and Engineering Works, in Dublin. Regarding the location, I’d say that it’s the receiving area for returned empties. The ‘scalding’ would refer to the cleaning process, steam or hot water, before refilling. This area was adjacent to the quayside, and connected to it by two narrow gauge lines. The narrow gauge would then transport the barrels to the filling area. I remember doing the ‘tour’ as a boy and being amazed when I exited the brewery on the opposite side of Jame’s St. than I entered. Of course, we went through a tunnel under James’s St as part of the tour. That’s something that you can’t do today when visiting the Storehouse as modern tours don’t actually visit the brewery. We finished at the Tap and was served a free small Guinness, due to my age, which had my head spinning going back up Steven’s Lane.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ I think ‘real photo postcards only appeared, in the US, in the early 1900s
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ No luck with ‘Hunt’ either. I think that style of postcard with picture on front and message and address spaces on back were only accepted by the Post office in the UK for postal use from around 1902/03.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Postcard is 1912 onwards as stamp is Type II halfpenny (January 1, 1912) Just ask any philatelist
chrisgrehan
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/