Snapshot at apple market

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Where: Waterford, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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Lots of discussion today about a clock, a public convenience and apples, it reminded me of a sketch from Halls Pictorial Weekly (for those of you old enough to remember, it was popular way back in the last century).

A summary here would not do justice to all of the comments below, you will have to read them all yourself, I guarantee you will enjoy.

Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford

Date: between ca. 1901 and 1954

NLI Ref: P_WP_0294

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 20002
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland hallspictorialweekly castironpublicconvenience eatingapples cookingapples carts mrparker women shawls sundaytrading waterfordcorporation waterford munster ireland cowaterford applemarket poolephotographiccollection margaretryan appleseller

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  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/May/2015 06:00:41

    Breaking News - People identified bell (muffled) was rung in the early hours of the morning. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6266289347/

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/May/2015 07:45:40

    OSI is down, and I'm not that familiar with Waterford, but is it here? www.google.ie/maps/@52.258191,-7.11179,3a,75y,14.74h,80.2...

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    sharon.corbet

    • 11/May/2015 07:49:07

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That's where I'd found too.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/May/2015 08:01:20

    Yes, and the clock is still there, but I can't arrange streetview to show the clock and cathedral, so i think the clock has been moved.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/May/2015 08:04:18

    The clock at the NIAH: Freestanding cast-iron clock, c.1910, comprising cast-iron pillar on fluted pedestal having clock face over with pinnacle. Road fronted on a triangular site on concrete brick cobbled footpath. Appraisal This clock is an attractive feature of street furniture that is of artistic and technical significance, having been designed as an aesthetic, as well as functional, piece.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/May/2015 08:05:34

    We also see a cast iron public convenience, I think.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 11/May/2015 08:06:26

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Is that not a different clock? At least the support looks much thinner in the newer photos. The NIAH claims since 1910 for the current version.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 11/May/2015 08:08:06

    A look into the future (plans for revamping the Apple Market, including glazing it over.)

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/May/2015 08:14:39

    I wonder has this guy got any apples? www.google.ie/maps/@52.258445,-7.111824,3a,17.4y,83.73h,7...

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 11/May/2015 08:15:25

    This bit is the only bit that's still recognisable: www.google.ie/maps/@52.258415,-7.11182,3a,15y,69.6h,87.79...

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 11/May/2015 08:30:16

    There are another 2 photos of the Apple Market on the NLI: one, two. Both show the market in full swing.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/May/2015 10:02:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Posted this postcard a few years back. Paul discovered her name too. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/9362493330/

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/May/2015 10:10:54

    I believe it was Mothering Sunday in North America yesterday, our most viewed photo of the day was "Mother and Son" I can only imagine why it was used so much! https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6542695535/

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/May/2015 10:13:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] We will have to talk to the OSI people and let them know that we need uninterrupted access to the viewer between 9.00 am and 11.00 am each weekday.

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/May/2015 10:27:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Mothering Sunday is the 4th sunday in lent, generally. (Or is this some form of sarcastic colonial bashing due to them having a Mothers' Day on the second sunday in May?)

  • profile

    Carol Maddock

    • 11/May/2015 12:32:48

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Looks a lot like a chalet de necessité alright, (as they're dubbed by https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner/). Similar to this gorgeous one we saw in Queen Elizabeth at City Quay, Dublin... https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/8042702091

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 11/May/2015 12:50:10

    There was a clock in the Apple Market up until the 1950's but it was not the one shown in the photo above which must have been removed sometime earlier. The clock currently in the Apple Market is a very recent addition.

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    Carol Maddock

    • 11/May/2015 17:43:32

    WHAT IT SAYS IN THE PAPERS A flavour of the Apple Market from the Munster News… October 1929: A prominent salesman complained that people weren’t eating as many apples as they used to. Demand was down and prices weren’t good. Eating apples were running at 4 shillings per 100, and cooking apples at 8 shillings. Sometimes there were as few as seven carts selling. He told of how there used to be 3 or 4 rows of carts from Piltown and district. March 1931: At a meeting of Committees of Waterford Corporation, the Borough Surveyor reported on the Clock at the Apple Market. He “had the pillar of the clock cleaned, and the works required cleaning. He had got Mr. Parker to carry out the necessary repairs, and reported he would have an estimate of the lighting cost for the next meeting”. July 1933: Temporary altar was installed at the Apple Market and Solemn Benediction was given during the annual Waterford procession in honour of the Blessed Sacrament. Apparently huge crowds knelt in adoration for the Blessing of the Host. October 1937: Cooking apples sold for 4 shillings per 120. Eating apples went for 5 shillings per cwt. Producers still coming from Piltown and other districts to sell them. November 1954: Big hoo-hah at meeting of Waterford Corporation about Sunday trading at the Apple Market. One Alderman complained about hawkers arriving into the city in lorries, selling what was described as a “pile of smash”. Though nobody seems have been too exercised about a few women selling apples, “because that was not street trading in the completely accepted sense”. The City Manager was concerned that a bye-law against Sunday trading would mean Sunday newspapers couldn’t be sold, and also that “poor unfortunate children going to Tramore could not buy an apple in the Apple Market”. One gentleman, horrified that Catholics were shopping on Sundays, queried if it was possible “that people have sunk so low”? Alderman Lynch said “women were selling apples at the Apple Market longer than any of the members could remember, and, whatever steps they took to prevent hawkers, they should make sure that they would not interfere with an ancient custom as far as these women were concerned”. (In a meeting a month later, it was said that apples had been sold at this spot “since the time of the Danes”!) March 1959: Undertaker James Falconer’s Consul car was stolen from the Apple Market and a car earlier stolen in Kilkenny was found parked in its place. A kinder class of car thief back in the day? January 1965: The hands were removed from the Apple Market clock (for repair?). “It is a big loss at the present time, much more so because of the fact that Hughes’s clock, which is more or less in the vicinity, has been taken down consequent on the sale of the premises”. (According to an article in April 1969, the clock had been demolished during the past couple of years, so presumably the hands were never repaired or replaced.) March 1967: Obviously our chalet de necessité had been removed at some stage, as a 3-man sub-committee of Waterford Corporation was set up to decide whether a a new public convenience should be built. December 1967: Shop keepers calling for the Apple Market to be expanded, and for more car parking spaces. June 1968: Mass Radiography Public Sessions were held there for people to have chest X-Rays.

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    ofarrl

    • 11/May/2015 18:14:32

    I didn't realise the clock was still there that late in the sixties Carol, I have no recollection whatsoever of it. I do remember seeing the Guiness Clock there once though, probably around 1966. There is some footage of the Guinness clock here youtu.be/PlxR47lG5cM

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/May/2015 19:01:26

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] With a certain Carol on the ball again this place is beginning to feel like home:-)

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    Carol Maddock

    • 11/May/2015 19:22:12

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Didn't I go mad altogether and get myself a subscription to Irish News Archive! Hope we get good use out of it...

  • profile

    Carol Maddock

    • 11/May/2015 19:26:30

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I was obviously completely misremembering, Paul, because I had originally thought there was a clock surviving at the Apple Market into the 1980s.

  • profile

    Beara Peninsula

    • 11/May/2015 21:00:33

    What's this clocks story?

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 11/May/2015 21:43:42

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] I spent a lot of time in the window of Geoffs Bar during the 80's so I'm pretty sure there was no clock there. One of my wife's relatives has a photo that shows the clock that was there in the 1950's, it was definitely different then the one in the Poole photo above. It was bigger and had four faces, something like a smaller version of Big Ben. Photo of the Apple Market in 1986 without clock flic.kr/p/9nyq9Z

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 12/May/2015 06:09:23

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] This yoke? www.google.ie/maps/@52.262082,-7.111338,3a,75y,293.53h,99...

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 12/May/2015 09:13:48

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Paul, that pic of the market without a clock shows where the clock today is, but the clock in the Poole shot is at the North end of the market, I think?

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    ofarrl

    • 12/May/2015 12:31:26

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] No that is the clock tower, much bigger then what was in the Apple Market. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley/] The clock was originally towards the North side of the market but there was no clock there in the 1970's or 80's and I don't think there was one there in the 1990's. This is a photo of a man by the name of Billy Gaffney taken there in 1955 courtesy of one of my wife's relatives Billy Gaffney

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    Niall McAuley

    • 12/May/2015 13:38:22

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Wow, like a giant four-sided Grandfather clock! There is obviously a history to be written on clocks in the apple market (and the NIAH I quoted earlier is looking increasingly incorrect!)

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    ofarrl

    • 12/May/2015 13:48:34

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley/The NIAH may be correct in its description of the current clock however as far as I know it has no historic connection to the Apple Market. The first clock there was erected by the Waterford Gas Company in the 1860's but I don't know when it was removed.

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 12/May/2015 15:14:25

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Very nice Paul and good of you to dig out the shot from 1955! That is an impressive clock to be sure!

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 12/May/2015 21:22:44

    Thanks Sean. I'm a bit surprised there's not more photos of the clock and there seems to be very little information available. Regarding the photo I posted, the gentlemans name is Billy Gaffney and he was a monumental sculptor. There are several photos in the NLI catalogue relating to his family's business. This is one example catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000592393/Image?lookfor=http:...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 25/May/2015 08:59:38

    Long awaited OSI 25" map quite unhelpful.

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    ofarrl

    • 15/Sep/2017 00:19:47

    The lady on the right is very likely a woman by the name of Margaret (Peggy) Ryan who was an apple seller. She lived not too far from there at Brown's Lane, one of her great great grand daughters is married to my brother in law. This is a photo of her taken some years later at the Apple Market and is from an old A.H. Poole postcard. Margaret (Peggy) Ryan

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 15/Sep/2017 05:30:01

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Well done.